Non-Christians (or non-believers), why do you celebrate Christmas?

ballz2wallz · 12-25-2007, 07:54 PM

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for celebrating Christmas, which is celebrated (in this primarily Christian country) as the recognition and respect in the significance ofthe birth of Jesus Christ? (gifts are given to symoblize the 3 wise men bringing gifts, and to symbolize a non-selfish "thinking of others" attitude)

If you do celebrate Christmas but refuse to acknowledge the birth (and significance) of Jesus Christ, do you not feel as though it is a very greedy, selfish, or vain time during the year? (Which brings up an interesting point...as a non-Christian, are greed, selfishness, or vanity even things to be afraid of?)

If you acknowledge that it is merely that you're following our culture and not the religious intonations behind it, then do you also support the other aspects of our culture that are religiously tied? (ie "In God We Trust" on our money, religious symbols or words on other aspects of our government, prayer in Congress or schools, etc)

Just askin...

Linzyhop · 12-28-2007, 09:48 AM

because christmas wasn't christmas to start with. the holiday was created to convert "peasants and pagans" easily over to christianity by putting a christian holiday over an already existing pagan one, Saturnalia (the birth of the roman sun god). There was also Yule around that time and the Winter Solstice (celebrated by the Celtic pagans). some say that Jesus was born on September 1st, some say in May, but December 25th is definitely not when he was born.

and the Christmas tree was a pagan custom LONG before it was Christian. live trees were decorated outside for festivals and dancing ensued around them. if you talk to Greek Christians, they won't even have Christmas trees because they say they are a pagan custom.

and I celebrate Christmas as a day with my family and the love and the time we don't always get to take with each other.

and the whole "in god we trust" isn't "in the Christian god we trust"... it's just god. why does it always have to be associated that way? if all god's are the same, God, Buddha, Allah etc......

besides, let the Christians go on celebrating the birth of Christ on that day. I really don't care. just stop putting up those stupid signs "Keep Christ in Christmas"... he was never really there to begin with.

jimeigh · 12-30-2007, 09:39 PM

it's a national holiday and it's fun to give and get presents

jimeigh · 12-30-2007, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

do you feel as though it is a very greedy, selfish, or vain time during the year?

yes

(Which brings up an interesting point...as a non-Christian, are greed, selfishness, or vanity even things to be afraid of?)

no

avsp · 12-31-2007, 07:06 AM

I dont
I havent for decades now
I originally stopped because I didnt like the rampant mindless consumerist frenzy
Since then I've also realised that it basically offensive to Christians for non-Christians to celebrate Xmas, ..., even if many christians dont think so.

I invented Newtonmas only a few years ago when I started on the net sio that I could 'swear' without blaspheming & upseting the many many yank chriastians.

FWIW IMO its the comericailisation of xmas rthat is warping its meaning & cheapening it much more than any overt 'secularist' attempts to rebrand it, ..., such attempts do in fact highlight the religiouis aspect of it

Dylith · 12-31-2007, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for celebrating Christmas, which is celebrated (in this primarily Christian country) as the recognition and respect in the significance ofthe birth of Jesus Christ? (gifts are given to symoblize the 3 wise men bringing gifts, and to symbolize a non-selfish "thinking of others" attitude)

I have a question for you. Why do you celebrate Christmas knowing that the celebration itself along with the date has nothing to do with Christianity? Decking the halls with bows of holly is done to so as to snag evil spirits as they enter your house. The 5 pointed star is a pagan symbol and the Christmas tree is as well.

Jer. 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

Christmas itself is such a materialistic holiday that is "suppose" to celebrate such a non-materialistic person. It is a comercial holiday. And as an atheist, no I am not very fond of it at all. To hell with getting your wife a new diamond necklace. I donated money for medical supplies in 3rd world countries (Doctor's without borders).

ie "In God We Trust" on our money,

This has nothing to do with Christianity specifically. Many religions are monotheistic, but no I see no reason to have such a thing on our money.

religious symbols or words on other aspects of our government,

No need for it.

prayer in Congress or schools

No need for it, and no desire for it.

Dylith · 12-31-2007, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

if all god's are the same, God, Buddha, Allah etc......

Buddha is not a diety.

ballz2wallz · 12-31-2007, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dylith

I have a question for you. Why do you celebrate Christmas knowing that the celebration itself along with the date has nothing to do with Christianity? Decking the halls with bows of holly is done to so as to snag evil spirits as they enter your house. The 5 pointed star is a pagan symbol and the Christmas tree is as well.

Symbolism. We use it to symbolize our celebratoin of the birth of Jesus Christ. The star is to symbolize the star above the manger when the shepherds were searching for Him.

It has never been a pagan celebration in this country, and we continue to celebrate it in reference to our recognition of Jesus Christ. What is wrong with symbolism? Do you expect us to know the exact day of when He was born? Does it matter that much?

Dylith · 12-31-2007, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Symbolism. We use it to symbolize our celebratoin of the birth of Jesus Christ. The star is to symbolize the star above the manger when the shepherds were searching for Him.

The five pointed star is the universal symbol for Wicca. (the way that it is displayed on Christmas trees) The Bible even tells you not to cut down trees and adorn them as the Pagans do. Not to mention the very material aspect of Christmas in celebration of a very non-materialistic person.

Anyway, my point is that Christianity certainly took something very Pagan and turned it into a Christian holiday. So I see no difference in non-religious people taking this now Christian holiday and turning it into a secular one.

It has never been a pagan celebration in this country,

Tell that to the Pagans in this country who celebrate it.

and we continue to celebrate it in reference to our recognition of Jesus Christ.

I just find it odd that something that you do in recognition of Jesus Christ is so anti-christ like and so non-Christian in nature.

Do you expect us to know the exact day of when He was born? Does it matter that much

No, perhaps not, but we can certainly do better than a Pagan religious holiday. Shepards did not tend to their flocks like that during December. They did it while the flocks were mating and reproducing during early spring. April or May would have been a much better time to have the celebration and a much more appropriate time at that. Plus it wouldn't have to carry with it all of these un-Biblical Pagan add ons with it that we have with modern Christmas celebrations.

jimeigh · 12-31-2007, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

It has never been a pagan celebration in this country

the pilgrims would have disagreed with you

ballz2wallz · 12-31-2007, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dylith

Tell that to the Pagans in this country who celebrate it.

Originally Posted by jimeigh

the pilgrims would have disagreed with you

You both know what I mean.

It's never been a nationally recognized part of our culture like the Christmas we celebrate is. Who cares what the few Pagans do on their own? They're free to do so.

up|dn · 12-31-2007, 07:16 PM

I celebrate Christmas for the same reason it has always been celebrated (under different names): winter is dreary; it is fun to have a festival to celebrate the end of shortening of days, and the rebirth of the sun.

Quite frankly, I think it would be best for both Christians and secularists to take Christ out of Christmas. It cheapens the Christian celebration of Jesus' birth, and the religious aspect doesn't mean squat to the secularists.

hereticzero · 01-01-2008, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Out of curiosity, what is your reasoning for celebrating Christmas, which is celebrated (in this primarily Christian country) as the recognition and respect in the significance ofthe birth of Jesus Christ? (gifts are given to symoblize the 3 wise men bringing gifts, and to symbolize a non-selfish "thinking of others" attitude)

If you do celebrate Christmas but refuse to acknowledge the birth (and significance) of Jesus Christ, do you not feel as though it is a very greedy, selfish, or vain time during the year? (Which brings up an interesting point...as a non-Christian, are greed, selfishness, or vanity even things to be afraid of?)

If you acknowledge that it is merely that you're following our culture and not the religious intonations behind it, then do you also support the other aspects of our culture that are religiously tied? (ie "In God We Trust" on our money, religious symbols or words on other aspects of our government, prayer in Congress or schools, etc)

Just askin...

I do not celebrate christmas. I give gifts to my family all year when I want to. We give a present to the kids at xmas so they do not feel left out but over all we couldn't give a crap about xmas except as one more day off. We don't do the religion, it is a national holiday so the religious part is moot. Don't care about jezus. show me a birth certificate. it is fake, phony, nada.

jimeigh · 01-01-2008, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

You both know what I mean.

It's never been a nationally recognized part of our culture like the Christmas we celebrate is. Who cares what the few Pagans do on their own? They're free to do so.

which brings up another point
if a holiday in our country is national, it should be secular. like the 4th of july, presidents day, and the like.

if you want to celebrate a religious holiday, then by all means, do so.

but if you want the country to recognize it as a national holiday, then drop the "keep christ in christmas" attitude.

if you want the holiday to be kept more holy and less secular, then you should be pushing for it to no longer be a national holiday, rather than smugly asking we heathens why we celebrating a national holiday.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

ballz2wallz · 01-01-2008, 09:05 PM

Originally Posted by jimeigh

which brings up another point
if a holiday in our country is national, it should be secular. like the 4th of july, presidents day, and the like.

if you want to celebrate a religious holiday, then by all means, do so.

but if you want the country to recognize it as a national holiday, then drop the "keep christ in christmas" attitude.

if you want the holiday to be kept more holy and less secular, then you should be pushing for it to no longer be a national holiday, rather than smugly asking we heathens why we celebrating a national holiday.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Why not?

That's how our country was formed right? Why do you want so badly to change what has been our country's tradition for decades, if not over a century?

Dylith · 01-01-2008, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Why not?

That's how our country was formed right? Why do you want so badly to change what has been our country's tradition for decades, if not over a century?

I think that it is interesting how you haven't really responded to a majority of what has been posted in this thread.

There is nothing really Christian about Christmas and there is no reason why it should/must be considered a Christian holiday here in the US. I see no reason why it must be religious in nature at all.

You guys took an old traditional celebration and attached Christianity to it. Why can't atheists simply celebrate the old celebration without attaching new religious notions to it (or celebrating the old ones)?

Dylith · 01-01-2008, 11:49 PM

Also, why do you insist on taking something that has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity (and even partakes in some very un-Christian practices) and make it "Christian"?

Simius · 01-02-2008, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

If you acknowledge that it is merely that you're following our culture and not the religious intonations behind it, then do you also support the other aspects of our culture that are religiously tied? (ie "In God We Trust" on our money, religious symbols or words on other aspects of our government, prayer in Congress or schools, etc)

Christmas - religious aspects = time with family, giving presents, good food

I guess I'd support the other things sans religion in the same way.

I support having a currency... Which is what a currency sans "In God we trust" would be.

I support having a congress in session... Which is what a session of congress sans the prayer before hand would be.

I support having schools... Which is what schools sans prayer would be.

Maybe I'm too dumb to figure out what you are asking. But it seems to me you are asking if we reject everything that has had some religious filler added to it... or if we can still appreciate the secular aspect of those things just like we appreciate the secular aspect of Christmas. I don't see why we wouldn't support the secular things even if they had religion tacked on to their backs.

ballz2wallz · 01-02-2008, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dylith

I think that it is interesting how you haven't really responded to a majority of what has been posted in this thread.

There is nothing really Christian about Christmas and there is no reason why it should/must be considered a Christian holiday here in the US. I see no reason why it must be religious in nature at all.

You guys took an old traditional celebration and attached Christianity to it. Why can't atheists simply celebrate the old celebration without attaching new religious notions to it (or celebrating the old ones)?

Because since the beginning of the thread, I've asked why non-believers celebrate a traditionally celebrated Christian holiday HERE IN THIS COUNTRY. Most of the posts have to do with how Christmas wasn't Christian to begin with, but that's completely irrelevant of my question.

Our cultural traditions IN THIS COUNTRY are what they are, there is no point in fighting that. So that's why I ask, why do you as a non-believer celebrate it? It was an honest question.