MS-13 defaces veteran's memorial with "Kill Whites"

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

d'oh, never use WND as a source, ever.

Okay... I'll grant you that they are on the same rung as Weekly World News.... but even the National Enquirer prints the truth on occasion :-)

There are plenty of other sources, but I don't have time now. Problem with accurate stats is that law enforcement often withholds immigration status in crime reporting. But you can bet that if a drunk driver runs over somebody and flees the scene with the body stuck in the fender well, then eludes police... I can predict the country of origin with AMAZING accuracy... and I aint psychic.

[Scrum]

YouTube Video

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Okay... I'll grant you that they are on the same rung as Weekly World News.... but even the National Enquirer prints the truth on occasion :-)

There are plenty of other sources, but I don't have time now. Problem with accurate stats is that law enforcement often withholds immigration status in crime reporting. But you can bet that if a drunk driver runs over somebody and flees the scene with the body stuck in the fender well, then eludes police... I can predict the country of origin with AMAZING accuracy... and I aint psychic.

Uh oh, been watching O'Reilly?

http://www.libertylounge.net/forums/...s-vid-see.html

My post (#8) seems to address your sentiment.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by hsmith

The MS-13 member that was thrown in jail for 7 years for robbing two people at knife point in fairfax when i was waiting in court wasn't "generic delinquent stuff"

robbery at knife piont? That hardly sounds like the work of a sophisticated ring of international criminal minds


IBgunsareforshowknivesareforpros

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Phantom

robbery at knife piont? That hardly sounds like the work of a sophisticated ring of international criminal minds


IBgunsareforshowknivesareforpros

who claims that they are sophisticated criminal minds? they are highly uneducated idiots.

you act like they are running casinos

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Phantom

robbery at knife piont? That hardly sounds like the work of a sophisticated ring of international criminal minds


IBgunsareforshowknivesareforpros

No doubt. They were taught that the way to influence politics is by using machetes on people. One of their calling cards is to hack up their enemies with machetes.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Uh oh, been watching O'Reilly?

http://www.libertylounge.net/forums/...s-vid-see.html

My post (#8) seems to address your sentiment.

Gads..... But even a broken watch is right twice a day huh?

I have been following the news pretty close for a couple years, and the majority of drunk driving deaths attributed to those of 'questionable' or 'illegal' status is astounding considering the relatively small population percentage.

Pretty much the same across the board. Can you spot a pattern here?


Federal Bureau of Investigation – Featured Fugitives - Violent Crimes - Murders

FBI - Most Wanted - The FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Seattle Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, St. Louis Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Houston Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, New York Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Chicago Fugitives

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Gads..... But even a broken watch is right twice a day huh?

I have been following the news pretty close for a couple years, and the majority of drunk driving deaths attributed to those of 'questionable' or 'illegal' status is astounding considering the relatively small population percentage.

Pretty much the same across the board. Can you spot a pattern here?


Federal Bureau of Investigation – Featured Fugitives - Violent Crimes - Murders

FBI - Most Wanted - The FBI's Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Seattle Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, St. Louis Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Houston Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, New York Fugitives

DEA Fugitives, Chicago Fugitives

Yeah, but stuff like this only perpetuates the stereotype. We could go into a huge debate over why people (in general) commit crimes (you don't see a bunch of rich people on the lists, I'll tell you that), and why minorities fall into those categories more frequently than whites. Is it a situation that has a predisposition to crime, or is it, as your list seems to claim (even if innocently) a racial predisposition.

I'll tell you this, it's ignorant to think that race is any cause of crime. Therefore to treat a race issue as a crime issue is ridiculous. However, that line of reasoning is pervasive.

It also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy... did the minority commit the crime because he was a poor minority? Or did the minority commit the crime because people wouldn't hire him because he was a minority therefore he was poor?

The issue is wrought with silliness from both sides of the fence though. And from where I stand, both sides are equally racist.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, but stuff like this only perpetuates the stereotype. We could go into a huge debate over why people (in general) commit crimes (you don't see a bunch of rich people on the lists, I'll tell you that), and why minorities fall into those categories more frequently than whites. Is it a situation that has a predisposition to crime, or is it, as your list seems to claim (even if innocently) a racial predisposition.

What stereotype is that? Pointing out the truth doesn't perpetuate stereotypes, ignoring the problem and letting them fester is the problem.

I'll tell you this, it's ignorant to think that race is any cause of crime. Therefore to treat a race issue as a crime issue is ridiculous. However, that line of reasoning is pervasive.

Race isn't the problem. Poorly educated illegal aliens with minimal job skills is the problem. It doesn't matter what race they are or what country they call home. It will have the same results. The vast majority of poorly educated illegal aliens with minimal job skills in our country tend to be Hispanic though.

It also creates a self-fulfilling prophecy... did the minority commit the crime because he was a poor minority? Or did the minority commit the crime because people wouldn't hire him because he was a minority therefore he was poor?

No it doesn't. A self fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to come true. Pointing out crime trends in America doesn't make illegal immigrants kill people, join gangs or commit crimes.

The issue is wrought with silliness from both sides of the fence though. And from where I stand, both sides are equally racist.

Something said in this thread has been racist? Discussing the issue of violent crime and illegal immigration is not racist, nor is it morally wrong in any way. We shouldn't ignore the problem for fear of perpetuating stereotypes.

EDIT: I just realized he was making predictions of crimes and applying the likelihood to illegals. I disagree with that.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Is it a situation that has a predisposition to crime, or is it, as your list seems to claim (even if innocently) a racial predisposition.

Data cannot be racist. Facts are facts.

You seem to be trying to disregard the evidence because of a perceived 'racist' interpretation of the data.

Come up with any reasoning you like to explain it, but the fact is that crime in this country is disproportionately committed by illegal aliens.

Calling me a racist will not make the 300 pound gorilla in the living room disappear.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by JaJae

What stereotype is that? Pointing out the truth doesn't perpetuate stereotypes, ignoring the problem and letting them fester is the problem.

Pointing out the truth does not mean insinuating that illegal aliens are the reason we have murders, drunk drivers, gangs, etc... which is what lists like that do AS SHOWN in the thread I linked before. Are murders being committed by illegal aliens? Of course! Any retard can see that. But equating the problem to the immigration is simply incorrect, no matter what you suggest the solution is.

Race isn't the problem. Poorly educated illegal aliens with minimal job skills is the problem. It doesn't matter what race they are or what country they call home. It will have the same results. The vast majority of poorly educated illegal aliens with minimal job skills in our country tend to be Hispanic though.

No, the bolded sentence is THE problem. The fact that you think it's the aliens with minimal job skills that are the problem is a huge fucking problem. You go to just about any city or town in the US and there are TONS of immigrants with limited job skills and education trying to make a living without doing things like murdering people. Those people are not the problem. There is NOTHING wrong with them having a limited education and working with what they have (usually their hands) to do better by their families. That should be respected, not scorned.

Of course, I'm not promoting illegal immigration, there is still an immigration problem aside from all that I'm talking about. But again, the immigration problem and minorities committing crimes are not related other than the simple fact that minorities are the ones doing the immigrating. Making a connection further than that IS being racist because it's grouping all the good in with the bad and calling it bad.

No it doesn't. A self fulfilling prophecy is a prediction that directly or indirectly causes itself to come true. Pointing out crime trends in America doesn't make illegal immigrants kill people, join gangs or commit crimes.

It does in the *possible* instance I pointed out. If people think immigrants are criminals and won't hire them, it puts the immigrants in a more desperate position. It's all in the interpretation of the numbers.

Something said in this thread has been racist? Discussing the issue of violent crime and illegal immigration is not racist, nor is it morally wrong in any way. We shouldn't ignore the problem for fear of perpetuating stereotypes.

EDIT: I just realized he was making predictions of crimes and applying the likelihood to illegals. I disagree with that.

Your edit picked up on it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Data cannot be racist. Facts are facts.

You seem to be trying to disregard the evidence because of a perceived 'racist' interpretation of the data.

Come up with any reasoning you like to explain it, but the fact is that crime in this country is disproportionately committed by illegal aliens.

Calling me a racist will not make the 300 pound gorilla in the living room disappear.

No one ever looks at ALL crime in America. The FBI most wanted list doesn't exactly represent tax evasion or fraud or 1000 other crimes. It's not the race that has a predisposition to crime, and believing or leading others to believe that it's the minorities that are the ones committing crimes is not right. It's HUMANITY that commits crime, and the % of criminal to noncriminal (discounting the fact of being an illegal alien is a crime, b/c that's not really a fair metric in distinguishing good humanity from bad humanity) is subject to the law of averages. There is no criminal gene.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Illegal aliens murder
12 Americans daily
Death toll in 2006 far overshadows total
U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq, Afghanistan
WorldNetDaily: Illegal aliens murder 12 Americans daily


More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says


More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says (OneNewsNow.com)

More people are killed in car accidents than both of those things combined. Clearly cars are more of a threat than iraq or illegal immigrants. Lets declare war on cars.

What a stupid arguement.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

No, the bolded sentence is THE problem. The fact that you think it's the aliens with minimal job skills that are the problem is a huge fucking problem.

Not really. Once again it's a matter of criminology. In any culture those less educated and with poorer job skills are far more likely to commit crimes. That's the reality of crime unfortunately.

I am not saying illegal aliens are the sole source of crime in this country. I'm saying they are definitely a factor and they commit crimes that are not proportional to the numbers of their population. The reason for that are the reasons I listed above. I don't see a problem in stating it. Something needs to be done about it.

But again, the immigration problem and minorities committing crimes are not related other than the simple fact that minorities are the ones doing the immigrating. Making a connection further than that IS being racist because it's grouping all the good in with the bad and calling it bad.

No it's not racist. We have illegal immigrants coming in from other countries as well, namely India. They do not commit crimes nearly on the same level. They also tend to be better educated and come with better job skills.
I n d i a P o s t . c o m - Illegal immigrants from India on the rise

HOUSTON: The fastest-growing group of illegal immigrants in the United States doesn't speak Spanish. They typically aren't found at day labor sites or streaming across the Southwest border into the US.

Instead, they're here in America working in tech companies, small businesses, as engineers or other highly skilled jobs. And they're coming from India says a special report in Houston Chronicle.

Again, the biggest problem with crime among illegal immigrants is among those who are poorly educated and those who don't have decent job skills. The vast majority of them are Hispanic and illegally cross our southern border. There is nothing racist or wrong with stating that fact. If you want to tackle crime coming from illegal immigrants you really have to focus on our southern border.

If people think immigrants are criminals and won't hire them, it puts the immigrants in a more desperate position. It's all in the interpretation of the numbers.

People shouldn't be hiring illegal immigrants regardless of what their personal views of them are. And as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a shortage of employers willing to hire illegals in this country, hence the reason they flock here. It's easier for them to find work here than in their own countries. Discussing factual crime trends won't change that, and if it does so what? Are we supposed to not discuss the facts? How are we supposed to resolve the problem if it's taboo to even speak of the issue?

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

More people are killed in car accidents than both of those things combined. Clearly cars are more of a threat than iraq or illegal immigrants. Lets declare war on cars.

What a stupid arguement.

Car accidents are not criminal by nature. Drunk driving is which can lead to car accidents, but we tend to crack down pretty hard on that. You could say the same for smoking or whatever else.

If it is true that a target population of our society is committing crimes at a disproportionate rate we need to address it so we can resolve the issue through both social and economic means. The problem comes to play when the people committing the crimes aren't citizens and how we should handle the problem.

[Ardentfrost]

It's not taboo to speak on the issue. It's just retarded to represent a suspected-murder list as being evidence of an immigrant problem.

Immigrants being criminals does not mean criminals are immigrants. Should I draw a vim diagram? Ok, I made one real quick and attached it.

[JaJae]

Sorry wasn't drawn to scale untrustworthy diagram

I'm not saying or implying all illegals are criminals. All I'm saying is that there is a problem with crime in this country perpetuating from illegal aliens that needs to be addressed without all the political correctness that tends to shelter the issue and resolve nothing. We need to be able to look at the facts and speak bluntly about them if we're ever going to resolve or move towards fixing the issue.