MS-13 defaces veteran's memorial with "Kill Whites"

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Looks like more sensationalistic garbage to me. It's clearly anti immigration masquerading as being against crime. They lump illegal immigrants in with drug dealers and hookers, it tries to associate racism, violence against americans and such with illegal immigrants.

Crime is bad. Illegal gangs are bad. Drug dealers are bad. These things are already illegal. What does any of this have to do with illegal immigration? NOTHING. What does this gang have to do with people who enter the country illegally? Nothing. Why did you try and use this particular gang as a spring board to speak out against illegal immigration? Are you not aware that the reason illegal human trafficing gangs like this exist is because we crack down on illegal immigration? The very policies you speak out against will help get rid of gangs like the MS-13 gang. So are you against the crime or are you against immigation? They are not the same thing.

Yes it does when they can move about so freely. LA Cops have complained that they cannot arrest known and already deported Gang Bangers until they get caught doing another felony. Then they go to county jail, get deported, and then return no problem and are right back on the street until they get caught after one of the next victims!

While it is important not to stereotype illegals with the actions of a few, it is equally wrong not to address this serious growing problem!

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Yes it does when they can move about so freely. LA Cops have complained that they cannot arrest known and already deported Gang Bangers until they get caught doing another felony. Then they go to county jail, get deported, and then return no problem and are right back on the street until they get caught after one of the next victims!

While it is important not to stereotype illegals with the actions of a few, it is equally wrong not to address this serious growing problem!

Deporting criminals is certainly not a good practice.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Deporting criminals is certainly not a good practice.

The point is they move and operate freely in and outside the country. Their immigration statis means nothing.

We would certainly have a good case of the benefit of some illegals if we did a better job against the criminal element. Instead we get the usual political talking points about how they only want to come here to work and feed their families. There are politics involved in ignoring these problems just as much as hyping them.

By the way if anyone would care to give an address I would gladly send the local G-13 Welcome Wagon to your Neighborhood? I hear the 13 bunch downtown are shooting blacks to scores points. Not just rival gang members, any blacks will do. Clearing out the hood!

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

More people are killed in car accidents than both of those things combined. Clearly cars are more of a threat than iraq or illegal immigrants. Lets declare war on cars.

What a stupid arguement.

There is no legitimacy to an illegals presence in this country. Illegal immigrants (from all countries) would not commit their crimes here if they themselves were not here. It would reduce several thousand needless deaths a year to increase measures to get rid of the illegal population, and doing so would not limit the rights of citizens.

Not to mention some of the theft of tax dollars and the movement of dollars to foreign economies.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

No one ever looks at ALL crime in America. The FBI most wanted list doesn't exactly represent tax evasion or fraud or 1000 other crimes. It's not the race that has a predisposition to crime, and believing or leading others to believe that it's the minorities that are the ones committing crimes is not right. It's HUMANITY that commits crime, and the % of criminal to noncriminal (discounting the fact of being an illegal alien is a crime, b/c that's not really a fair metric in distinguishing good humanity from bad humanity) is subject to the law of averages. There is no criminal gene.

But we are not talking about all crime here. We are talking about murder and gang violence. I know it may not seem 'culturally sensitive' to say so, but it is quite accurate to state the fact that illegal migrants commit a very disproportionate percentage of murder and gang related crimes (viscous in nature and usually regarding drug rackets and white slavery). We can safely lump a few other categories like kidnapping.

Nothing to do with race. Illegal migrants from south of the border come from a number of countries and include Spanish, Portuguese, Negro, Caucasian, Jewish and Asian bloodlines..... so lets please throw back the red herring.

We are not talking about any particular culture save the culture of crime.

It has been MY PERSONAL experience that legal immigrants are fine individuals. My life has been made better because of them, and I owe the ones I know my friendship and goodwill. Some of the legal immigrants that I hold in high regards are from South of the border.

But I refuse to let cultural sensitivity force me to turn a blind eye to cold hard facts and data.

The reason that I will not move to an area with a large population of illegal immigrants is to avoid the criminality that such regions share in common. Find me ANY trend that shows otherwise. Show me where you can identify that such numbers are statistical oddities.


BTW.... Illegal immigrants are trespassers. I do think that it is fair to make a moral estimation that disregarding property rights is not a good characteristic. Someone who trespasses or steals is using force to take something from you. My bias is because I see things from the standpoint of individual liberty vs people like the Hmong, who do not have the concept of the individual right to own property. Such fundamental disagreements lead to a good v evil in the end. So just because they dont recognize my right to my own yard or hunting ground.... or my own sovereign country... does not mean I have to accept their values over mine. They don't believe in my country... fine. Just stay in your country and don't attempt to force me live under your values.

[Ardentfrost]

Yeah, stay in your country, don't come to mine!

That sentiment, an extreme version of nationalism, is nothing more than prettied up racism.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, stay in your country, don't come to mine!

That sentiment, an extreme version of nationalism, is nothing more than prettied up racism.

You are using that naughty word that wreaks of ad homenim again.... racism is just a canard used to derail intelligent thought.

I am not against immigration AT ALL.

I am against trespassing and theft.

There is more that one way across the border. One way is legal, the others are not.

This applies to any race or nationality.

I am nationalistic in the sense that I recognize the right of people to organize into autonomous political units and to defend their rights and territory as they see fit. That is the essence of our national character... of any national character. If you believe in one-world government and 'citizen of the world', you will find it impossible to get all of the people of America to voluntarily submit to your will, and if you would force them to do so... well, you can take your place among Trotsky and Mao in ideology.

So... if faced with the question of nationalism vs internationalism (international socialism).... you get back into that whole good v evil discussion as the concepts are from diametrically opposed mindsets.

[Ardentfrost]

Here's the thing... I'm not big on being PC or anything, normally I couldn't care less, but when it comes to immigration there is a REAL problem PERVASIVE in our society that is immigrants are bad. This is usually displayed in people misrepresenting crime statistics to make it appear that immigration is the problem. Immigration is most certainly NOT the problem, we've had immigration since we were a nation. (Which, at this point in the conversation, if anyone is thinking "Mexicans have been a problem since the 40's!" you can take your John Hearst propaganda and shove it up your ass).

Crime is always a problem, and we should try to fix it. I am all for that. It's not going to happen by spending all our efforts trying to send illegals back home. We have created a situation in which it is too difficult for them to immigrate legally, so they stay illegally. Millions of illegal immigrants are NOT criminals in the way crime statistics are used to stir up immigrant-hatred. Some are, yes, but if we use those statistics to become anti-immigration, AS DISPLAYED IN THE ORLY VIDEO IN THE THREAD I LINKED, then it only furthers the problem and resolves NOTHING.

I am certainly not in support of criminals. I am not even in support of illegal immigration, although I think we have made legal immigration unreasonable. I am 100% pro-immigration as long as our unemployment is really low. But if we want to take care of the problem, we need to attack the problem instead of trying to scapegoat a race of people, EVEN IF ACCIDENTALLY. As I said in the linked thread, ORLY may be completely off his rocker 99% of the time, but that 1% of truth he sneaks into the other bullshit gets enough ears to keep him on the air. And if that's the case, he, just as an example of a single person with lots of listeners, is convincing people that the immigration itself is the problem.

[jthomas]

If our immigration laws had been enforced, since they are NOT BROKEN, but IGNORED... this country would NOT be in the shape it is in today!!!!!!
How can you be in a war on Terror, when this failed government won't close our borders... but allows them to be massively invaded!!! ....and gang memebers ARE a part of that!!!!!!!!! Whether you would like to admit it or not! Enforce our current immigration laws...THEY WORK!!!!!!

And employers of illegal aliens should pay the price for breaking the law!