New Hamspshire is rolling up

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's so sad if you're right. It causes me to lose my faith in the future of this country (no lie). If there is no stopping this downward spiral into autocratic socialism, why not just go live in Australia or something.

You know, Carter started and Reagan continued deregulation...a scaling back of liberal ideology has occured before, it can happen again

But, you still have to give it a chance, if Universal Healthcare is so horrible, let it go for a few years and let the people decide whether they hate it or not, if they do, we'll elect another Reagan or maybe even a Paul-lite (this time without an Iraq war and without advocating radical things like a gold standard) and we'll "correct" ourselves to your position

But maybe just maybe, this whole universal healthcare will actually work, it's possible you know?

I knew the Iraq War was wrong for 100x reasons, but anyone will tell you, there was always a chance in the beginning that it could have actually worked

And that's Iraq, we're talking about something that's far easier and we can learn from the mistakes made in the UK, Canada, France, and make the BEST system

[thomez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's so sad if you're right. It causes me to lose my faith in the future of this country (no lie). If there is no stopping this downward spiral into autocratic socialism, why not just go live in Australia or something.

Sadly, there will definitely be more "free" places to live in this world than the future United States. The problem seems to be that the socially free places have the worst tax rates imaginable.

[Ardentfrost]

History tells us that once the goverment takes it, a mixture of people not wanting to give up the power and the people no longer being self-reliant will prevent it ever from being scaled back. I don't think it'll be the end of the world or anything if universal healthcare comes, and it might even be good for me personally as long as my personal tax burden (including my wife's) is less than $2k per year to cover it, but I still push against it because the gov't has given me zero reasons to think it's capable of handling such a thing.

I hope whoever ends up being president will be expeditious in getting us out of Iraq. Surely that's one expenditure most of us can agree isn't needed.

[RMNIXON]

The McCain Lead seems to be holding:

18.93% IN: CLINTON 40; OBAMA 36; EDWARDS 17; RICHARDSON 4; KUCINICH 2...

15.94% IN: *MCCAIN 37; ROMNEY 28; HUCKABEE 12; GIULIANI 9; PAUL 8; THOMPSON 2...

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by thomez

Sadly, there will definitely be more "free" places to live in this world than the future United States. The problem seems to be that the socially free places have the worst tax rates imaginable.

At least be free of authoritarian rule.

Maybe my future is just to own a bar in Ireland and raise sheep or something

[RMNIXON]

61% IN: CLINTON 39; OBAMA 36; EDWARDS 17; RICHARDSON 5; KUCINICH 2...

54% IN: *MCCAIN 37; ROMNEY 31; HUCKABEE 11; GIULIANI 9; PAUL 8; THOMPSON 1...


CLINTON 62,823 [39%]
OBAMA 58,464 [36%]

[RMNIXON]

Well we ain't Rid of Her just yet folks...............

IT'S ONLY JUST BEGUN...
71% IN: *CLINTON 39; OBAMA 36; EDWARDS 17; RICHARDSON 5; KUCINICH 1...

66% IN: *MCCAIN 36.68; ROMNEY 31.64; HUCKABEE 11.24; GIULIANI 8.53; PAUL 7.74; THOMPSON 1.18...


CLINTON 78,266 [39%]
OBAMA 72,495 [36%]

MCCAIN, HILLARY WIN

[6SpeedTA95]

This is a HUGE win for Hillary, absolutely huge.

[motivez]

Completely unexpected turn around. I can't believe the polls were off as much as they were

[hsmith]

Paul is toast.

I just hope the freedoms we enjoy last my lifetime, because they are on the way out.

America was a nice run, but it is gone to the statists.

[thewise1]

I have come to the conclusion that the American people simply want socialism, and the government to solve their problems for them.

It's not a matter of getting paul's message out (or anyone with a similar message). The people don't WANT that personal responsibility. They will actively vote against it.

I don't know what to do. Do I raise my kid to not like freedom, knowing that she will be disappointed all her life like I feel right now? Do I go on strike as a man of production, similar to the idea of atlas shrugged? I don't know what to do. I'm dumbfounded, completely at a loss for ideas right now.

[Thorgrim]

Let's not be melodramatic here, we already know what post 9/11 Bushism/Republicans are like, but we haven't seen a strong Democrat in the White House in a long time, let alone after 9/11

You may be pleasantly surprised, it is in the realm of possibility

You know, people always say, you can't compare us to Japan, etc on guns because our culture is so different...well then why can't we say "Hey, not only is our culture different, but we can look at ALL the mistakes of other countries' healthcare systems and help cultivate a great system"

Get out of Iraq, restore tax levels of those who make over $250,000 AFTER DEDUCTIONS AND EXCEPTIONS, and work with some ideas that are progressive...not exactly my idea of a nightmare

[thewise1]

Not going to be pleasantly surprised when taxes are raised on those who produce more, nor will I be pleasantly surprised when concealed carry is outlawed federally, nor will I be pleasantly surprised when universal healthcare drives the good doctors out of this country... etc

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Not going to be pleasantly surprised when taxes are raised on those who produce more, nor will I be pleasantly surprised when concealed carry is outlawed federally, nor will I be pleasantly surprised when universal healthcare drives the good doctors out of this country... etc

the republicans would love to filibuster the second, and the new democratic party of jon tester and jim webb wouldn't support that anyway

i don't know where people get the idea that good doctors are going to leave the country, you realize you still have to pay US taxes abroad? unless they renounce their citizenship and go through 10 hoops, and i am sure that's REALLY what they want for their kids and lives

and where exactly would they go?

Lets see, they have the options of going for "more money" in:
the poorest countries in latin america
Africa
the poorest muslim nations
communist vietnam or china

wow, I am sure they are paying their doctors by the truckload there, and every other country has universal healthcare

on your first point, we are paying interest on the debt, it's money going right down the drain, how do you suggest we pay it off...democrats will filibuster any cuts to medicine for poor children and the elderly (which are where our budget goes on the liberal side) and republicans will filibuster massive military cuts...both sides won't give up...as Ron Paul would say...district redistribution...so the only option is to raise taxes to move towards paying off our debt so we aren't throwing money down the drain

[WickedLou9]

I don't think HIllary can win a national election. If the GOP is smart it will choose McCain who can get a good portion of the base and also pull independants. Clinton is like the liberal version of Bush. she will take almost the entire base of her party but she will have trouble pulling anyone else. That's not what we need after the great divider leaves office.

[Ardentfrost]

Thor, this isn't about Universal Healthcare. That is one drop in the bucket which makes us disappointed. It's the CURRENT state of the nation that makes it so disappointing. Republicans are voting for bigger government, MORE international interventionism, a bloated and inefficient executive branch, an inflated fiat dollar. Iowa Republicans voted for MORE religion in the government even.

Although RP offers a Republican candidate that left-leaning independents and even some democrats can get behind, the people who are voting at this time are going to be Republicans and right-leaning or libertarian-leaning independents for the most part. THEY are the ones that are choosing these expansionist candidates in such droves.

As I said before, if NH can't garner more than 10% support for RP, then there really is no hope in the near future.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

I can't believe the polls were off as much as they were

Really?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I have come to the conclusion that the American people simply want socialism, and the government to solve their problems for them.

It's not a matter of getting paul's message out (or anyone with a similar message). The people don't WANT that personal responsibility. They will actively vote against it.

I don't know what to do. Do I raise my kid to not like freedom, knowing that she will be disappointed all her life like I feel right now? Do I go on strike as a man of production, similar to the idea of atlas shrugged? I don't know what to do. I'm dumbfounded, completely at a loss for ideas right now.

I'm with you.

The American people have been slowly trained to be dependent on the government. The Democrats/Socialists are winning this battle.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I'm with you.

The American people have been slowly trained to be dependent on the government. The Democrats/Socialists are winning this battle.

Please don't act like the GOP is actually better in this regard. The past 6 years with a GOP controlled congress and white house showed absolutely no shrinking of social programs or spending.

[bheld]

What is with all the moaning from free market purists? You guys are extremists just like socialists. You don't understand that Americans want to strike a balance between state control of the economy and free reign for the wealthy. It's worked for us and for Europe for a long time now. The only examples of your philosophy even being put into practice came through authoritarianism and ended in economic disaster.