the government is perfectly free to inspect every laptop that enters the country

[7960]

.......the government contends that it is perfectly free to inspect every laptop that enters the country, whether or not there is anything suspicious about the computer or its owner. Rummaging through a computer’s hard drive, the government says, is no different than looking through a suitcase.

If Your Hard Drive Could Testify ... - New York Times

Bullshit. They have the right to search my suitcase for things I may use to harm the plane or other passengers. They do not have the right to search my wallet. Border agents have no business logging into my laptop.



Of course, this guy is an idiot

Originally Posted by article

Asked whether he had child pornography on his laptop, Mr. Boucher said he was not sure. He said he downloaded a lot of pornography but deleted child pornography when he found it.

Some of the files on Mr. Boucher’s computer were encrypted using a program called Pretty Good Privacy, and Mr. Boucher helped the agent look at them, apparently by entering an encryption code. The agent said he saw lots of revolting pornography involving children.

[WickedLou9]

That's pretty crazy. That guy was an idiot though. He should have just given the agent his laptop and shut his mouth about the encryption. Not that I condone what he had on there, but I don't like the blatant invasion of privacy.

Do they search blackberries and PDA's? What about cell phones with cameras? If you aren't carrying drugs or weapons across the border they shouldn't care.

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Do they search blackberries and PDA's? What about cell phones with cameras? If you aren't carrying drugs or weapons across the border they shouldn't care.

From the story:

“Under the government’s reasoning,” the brief said, “border authorities could systematically collect all of the information contained on every laptop computer, BlackBerry and other electronic device carried across our national borders by every traveler, American or foreign.”

[bheld]

GOVERNMENT SECURITY MEASURES ARE INCREDIBLY INVASIVE

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by 7960

From the story:

“Under the government’s reasoning,” the brief said, “border authorities could systematically collect all of the information contained on every laptop computer, BlackBerry and other electronic device carried across our national borders by every traveler, American or foreign.”

How is that even feasable let alone legal? It would take a team of trained IT professionals to recover data from a PC if you encrypted the files. And if you put a password on your phone or something, would you be obliged to give that password to authorities? Sur emost people don't encrypt thier stuff, but this particular Pedo did, and he used some good encryption. What if he said, " no i have no kiddie porn". The officer would have looked around, failed to get into some directories and then what? You plea the 5th? I wonder if they can seize your computer at that point or if they just have to give it back to you.

[Ardentfrost]

time to encrypt my laptop. I don't even have anything illegal on there, but I probably have financial information.

Sounds like another good case for the ACLU though.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Sounds like another good case for the ACLU though.

They like defending child pornographers..

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

How is that even feasable let alone legal? It would take a team of trained IT professionals to recover data from a PC if you encrypted the files. And if you put a password on your phone or something, would you be obliged to give that password to authorities?

The article says you can't be required to give your password because it would be asking you to incriminate yourself. But since this guy willingly gave his password once he was forced to give it again later and it didn't violate his 5th amendment right because he'd already willingly gave it.

What if he said, " no i have no kiddie porn". The officer would have looked around, failed to get into some directories and then what? You plea the 5th?

Yes.

I wonder if they can seize your computer at that point or if they just have to give it back to you.

According to the article that question hasn't been answered.

[7960]

Originally Posted by JaJae

They like defending child pornographers..

I have company confidential info on my laptop. I'd guess most businesspeople do. Remember that sales presentation with next quarter forecasts you got in email? I bet it has "company confidential" on each page. So why should a border agent force me to open it up for him to read?

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

How is that even feasable let alone legal? It would take a team of trained IT professionals to recover data from a PC if you encrypted the files. And if you put a password on your phone or something, would you be obliged to give that password to authorities? Sur emost people don't encrypt thier stuff, but this particular Pedo did, and he used some good encryption. What if he said, " no i have no kiddie porn". The officer would have looked around, failed to get into some directories and then what? You plea the 5th? I wonder if they can seize your computer at that point or if they just have to give it back to you.

Another point.....what if someone emailed pr0n to me and I just hadn't had a chance to read/delete it yet? I can't control what someone sends me....am I responsible for what's unread in my inbox??

[kinggovernor]

good.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

good.

You should change your user text to Facist. Libertarian doesn't fit.

[motivez]

That's ridiculous, what's their legal basis?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

They like defending child pornographers..

They like defending people who's rights have been violated, regardless of the crime they've been accused of. I think it's a good thing.

I think there's a tendency for folks to right off fairness as soon as subjects like this are mentioned, we'd all like to see them strung up by their toes, but every citizen of the US deserves the protections guaranteed to them regardless of what they're accused of

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

You should change your user text to Facist. Libertarian doesn't fit.

items entering this country are subject to inspection, computers should be no different.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

That's ridiculous, what's their legal basis?

from the article:

There is one lonely voice on the other side. In 2006, Judge Dean D. Pregerson of Federal District Court in Los Angeles suppressed the evidence against Mr. Arnold.

“Electronic storage devices function as an extension of our own memory,” Judge Pregerson wrote, in explaining why the government should not be allowed to inspect them without cause. “They are capable of storing our thoughts, ranging from the most whimsical to the most profound.”

Computer hard drives can include, Judge Pregerson continued, diaries, letters, medical information, financial records, trade secrets, attorney-client materials and — the clincher, of course — information about reporters’ “confidential sources and story leads.”

But Judge Pregerson’s decision seems to be headed for reversal. The three judges who heard the arguments in October in the appeal of his decision seemed persuaded that a computer is just a container and deserves no special protection from searches at the border. The same information in hard-copy form, their questions suggested, would doubtless be subject to search.

The United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, in Richmond, Va., took that position in a 2005 decision. It upheld the conviction of John W. Ickes Jr., who crossed the Canadian border with a computer containing child pornography. A customs agent’s suspicions were raised, the court’s decision said, “after discovering a video camera containing a tape of a tennis match which focused excessively on a young ball boy.”

It is true that the government should have great leeway in searching physical objects at the border. But the law requires a little more — a “reasonable suspicion” — when the search is especially invasive, as when the human body is involved.

Computers should be no different than anything else, with reasonable suspicion, law enforcement should be allowed to legally search them.

[motivez]

I can understand making sure the item isn't dangerous (bomb or some such), but the information contained within?

If you carry financial papers back in, should the government be able to document everything in there? Keep a list somewhere of what books you were reading, etc?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by motivez

That's ridiculous, what's their legal basis?

"They're the justice department and if you're not doing anything wrong you dont have anything to hide!"



/bushsackrider





To my knowledge there is no legal basis for going through computer data without a warrant. Making sure you do not have a bomb on a suitcase or making sure that your laptop is not some sort of fake PC is one thing. Searching the data? Entirely different.

[7960]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

from the article:

Computers should be no different than anything else, with reasonable suspicion, law enforcement should be allowed to legally search them.

Is "driving over the border from canada" reasonable suspicion now?