Annoying: People making 100k worrying about taxes on those making 100k

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by thewise1

if you don't love it, leave it?

Bro, working 6 months out of the year just to pay taxes is American. What is wrong with that?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

if you don't love it, leave it?

Try to form a coalition to amend the social contract, if you don't have any sort of real support (see 3% of New Hampshire vote)

you have several options, I'll only list the most obvious:

Choose from a variety of 200+ countries...embrace the market of other countries, don't shun choice, that would kill the market

Conduct non-violent resistance, like Gandi, MLK...

Revolt



just because you don't like the many options doesn't mean there is a false dichotomy of "I must love Hillary Clinton or flee to Burma"

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Try to form a coalition to amend the social contract, if you don't have any sort of real support (see 3% of New Hampshire vote)

you have several options, I'll only list the most obvious:

Choose from a variety of 200+ countries...embrace the market of other countries, don't shun choice, that would kill the market

Conduct non-violent resistance, like Gandi, MLK...

Revolt



just because you don't like the many options doesn't mean there is a false dichotomy of "I must love Hillary Clinton or flee to Burma"

You know thorgrim, I have seriously considered leaving.

I might even do so. But that doesn't mean that complaining about taxes means that we have to leave, in spite of your comments.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Try to form a coalition to amend the social contract, if you don't have any sort of real support (see 3% of New Hampshire vote)

you have several options, I'll only list the most obvious:

Choose from a variety of 200+ countries...embrace the market of other countries, don't shun choice, that would kill the market

Conduct non-violent resistance, like Gandi, MLK...

Revolt



just because you don't like the many options doesn't mean there is a false dichotomy of "I must love Hillary Clinton or flee to Burma"

I find it sad you don't mind being a slave for half your life.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Yeah, being a slave to the government for half your life is just ok

please

What if we eliminated income tax...I'm a slave to the government for how long to pay my property taxes, sales tax on bare essentials...etc

Even Ron Paul thinks we need some government, paid for by the people, if you insist on using the "slave" word, then really no matter what we do, even in Ron Paul's world we'd be slaves for part of the year

Who wants to be slaves for part of the year?

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

What if we eliminated income tax...I'm a slave to the government for how long to pay my property taxes, sales tax on bare essentials...etc

Even Ron Paul thinks we need some government, paid for by the people, if you insist on using the "slave" word, then really no matter what we do, even in Ron Paul's world we'd be slaves for part of the year

Who wants to be slaves for part of the year?

You don't see a difference between having to work a month to pay taxes compared to working 6 months to pay taxes?

You do realize we can cut the size of govt as well, right?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

I find it sad you don't mind being a slave for half your life.

Using a simple tax program, my family only pays...I'd have to say on average (cousins, uncles, etc) 15-20% of their gross income, they all have nice big houses, plan to send their kids to college, and have gas-guzzling SUVs...no they are not dying in debt

They simply know how to point and click a mouse on TurboTax

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

You don't see a difference between having to work a month to pay taxes compared to working 6 months to pay taxes?

You do realize we can cut the size of govt as well, right?

I think slavery is intolerable, even for a second, I mean my master could rape me, beat me...it's terrible

One second, half a month...either way I'd leave the country

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

It's an opportunity cost thing. if you're at 99,999 and you get offered an additional responsibility for 5001 raise, you are then making 105000. Your raise is actually not $5k, but 72% of 5k or 3600. If the thing you've been offered to add on isn't worth 3600 to you, then the 5k raise isn't viable.

That is, of course, only considering taxable income.

Also it doesn't account for the 9% social security, state taxes, etc...

Thats not really peculiar to a graduated income tax scale. that applies to taxation on the whole and market forces. If you are offered a new job that requires more effort but you are not getting enough to offset the added effort, you won't take the job. That applies no matter what the situation is, taxes or not.
In this particular case lets assume that the raise is enough to make it worth your while. Are you saying that adding an extra 10 dollars a week to your total tax withholdings
So lets say, assuming the same 100k a year salary, you pay about 20% of that when all is said and done. 20,000 a year in federal taxes. Are you saying that an additional 250 dollars a year, or 10 dollars per paycheck will make a difference? And I don't mean in the mathematical sense. yes 20,250 is more than 20,000. But you are also making more per month. So the raise had to be so close to the point where you don't want the responsibility that 10 dollars one way or another matters. People generally are not that specific when they make decisions.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by hsmith

When all is said and done, I effectively am taxed at 42.5% a year. Which doesn't include sales taxes. Add that, and it is probably around 50%.

That is really fair

I am a slave for 5 months out of the year and all I get in return are roads, which I pay for with gas taxes anyway.

For the betterment of everyone, right

All you get is roads? I suppose you would have just as many opportunities to make a living if the framework that taxes pay for wasn't in place?

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I think slavery is intolerable, even for a second, I mean my master could rape me, beat me...it's terrible

One second, half a month...either way I'd leave the country

So why are you fine with working for 6 months binded to the master of the gov't?

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Scrum

All you get is roads? I suppose you would have just as many opportunities to make a living if the framework that taxes pay for wasn't in place?

What I pay in taxes I do not get out, by far.

I have no issue paying my fair share, but that isn't quite what is happening.

[bheld]

All it takes is one quick look around to decide if what we pay in taxes is worth it. Name a better place with lower taxes.

Look at Latin America in the 70s if you want to find out what happens when you transition to a pure free market economy.

[Ardentfrost]

If all we do is compare ourselves to other countries, then we're just spinning wheels until someone passes us. We can work to better our own situation without having another country beat us first.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by hsmith

What I pay in taxes I do not get out, by far.

I have no issue paying my fair share, but that isn't quite what is happening.

You aren't looking at the whole picture then. You are looking at dollars. You pay 5000 dollars and don't get it all back. That's a mistake. You pay taxes to fund the military to keeo our country safe. You don't see a direct return on that money but you certainly benefit. You pay taxes to fund the FBI, the INS, the FTC, the FDA, the EPA etc. All of these things benefit you. They help fight crime, they keep our borders safe, they keep dangerous products off the market, etc. You benefit from these things. It also creates a society that you like to live in. Sure there is waste. of course we should try and reduce the waste as much as we can, however you have to recognize that there is alot of benefit that having a government provides to a society. All of the businesses that we have operating in the US today would not exist without a government to create a favorable environment within which business can operate.
There are things that individuals can not do on thier own and that the private market won't handle either. The interstate highway system would never have been built without a central government, just for one example.

How do you measure what your "fair share" is? I don't have an answer to that question.
However the people telling you to look at small central american countries are correct. That is what you get when you don't pay for very much in terms of taxes. There is little or no public safety. public works don't exist. You are own your own. Maybe there is a military to prevent invasion and coups. That's about it. At what point is it enough for you to want to live in that society?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

You aren't looking at the whole picture then. You are looking at dollars. You pay 5000 dollars and don't get it all back. That's a mistake. You pay taxes to fund the military to keeo our country safe. You don't see a direct return on that money but you certainly benefit. You pay taxes to fund the FBI, the INS, the FTC, the FDA, the EPA etc. All of these things benefit you. They help fight crime, they keep our borders safe, they keep dangerous products off the market, etc. You benefit from these things. It also creates a society that you like to live in. Sure there is waste. of course we should try and reduce the waste as much as we can, however you have to recognize that there is alot of benefit that having a government provides to a society. All of the businesses that we have operating in the US today would not exist without a government to create a favorable environment within which business can operate.
There are things that individuals can not do on thier own and that the private market won't handle either. The interstate highway system would never have been built without a central government, just for one example.

How do you measure what your "fair share" is? I don't have an answer to that question.
However the people telling you to look at small central american countries are correct. That is what you get when you don't pay for very much in terms of taxes. There is little or no public safety. public works don't exist. You are own your own. Maybe there is a military to prevent invasion and coups. That's about it. At what point is it enough for you to want to live in that society?

Fantastic post

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

You aren't looking at the whole picture then. You are looking at dollars. You pay 5000 dollars and don't get it all back. That's a mistake. You pay taxes to fund the military to keeo our country safe. You don't see a direct return on that money but you certainly benefit. You pay taxes to fund the FBI, the INS, the FTC, the FDA, the EPA etc. All of these things benefit you. They help fight crime, they keep our borders safe, they keep dangerous products off the market, etc. You benefit from these things. It also creates a society that you like to live in. Sure there is waste. of course we should try and reduce the waste as much as we can, however you have to recognize that there is alot of benefit that having a government provides to a society. All of the businesses that we have operating in the US today would not exist without a government to create a favorable environment within which business can operate.
There are things that individuals can not do on thier own and that the private market won't handle either. The interstate highway system would never have been built without a central government, just for one example.

How do you measure what your "fair share" is? I don't have an answer to that question.
However the people telling you to look at small central american countries are correct. That is what you get when you don't pay for very much in terms of taxes. There is little or no public safety. public works don't exist. You are own your own. Maybe there is a military to prevent invasion and coups. That's about it. At what point is it enough for you to want to live in that society?

It's easy to see what is fair...fair is the SAME basic system and tax rate for everyone regardless of income.

Flat tax with a personal exemptions and dependant exemptions (pick your level, I think husband + wife + 3 kids = plenty of deductions). Once you hit your exemption/dependent level EVERYONE is taxed at the same rate.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

If all we do is compare ourselves to other countries, then we're just spinning wheels until someone passes us. We can work to better our own situation without having another country beat us first.

complacency for the lose

[bheld]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

If all we do is compare ourselves to other countries, then we're just spinning wheels until someone passes us. We can work to better our own situation without having another country beat us first.

That's no reason to drastically reform our economy.

"Hell, we haven't done anything different lately. Let's gut the government!"