Originally Posted by Roonie Yes denying the holocaust ever occured is a huge red flag for me too and says racist to the core. The other stuff is proof. I understand that Jews were targeted and interned by the Nazis, and that and unknown number of Jews were murdered by ...
01-14-2008, 03:06 PM
| #121 | ||||
| Member Republican 
| Originally Posted by Roonie I understand that Jews were targeted and interned by the Nazis, and that and unknown number of Jews were murdered by the Nazis.
But ultimately, I think that this religious honoring of the Jewish people is by default a terrible slight to all other religions and races murdered in the 20th century. About 100 million people were murdered in that timeframe. How many museums have you seen honoring the Ukranians hung by thier jaws from hooks... or starved to the point of eating their fruken shoes! and their neighbors. The Ukraine was like the killing fields of Pol Pot, and you dont see memorials or forced "sensitivity training" telling people to feel pity for these folks. | ||||
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01-14-2008, 03:21 PM
| #122 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster  Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher No. There is evidence that entire towns were wiped out and the number may be even higher. Either way, if someone is going to deny it happened, at this point the burden of proof is on him.
There are records, trials, witness statements from survivors *and* guards............ again, it's up to the deniers to disprove the evidence that it *did* happen. | ||||
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01-14-2008, 03:39 PM
| #123 | ||||
| Member Republican
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim No, Stalin systematically starved them to death, shot them, tortured them, raped them, etc.... On a scale of cruelty that surpasses even the Nazis... And I know it is news to you. You were publicly educated right?
It is not nearly as cut and dry as you believe.
Yes, there was a great migration before and after the expulsion. Stalin did not give the Ukrainians the option to leave the killing fields.
What I know is that it is physically impossible for the crematorium to have incinerated 3 million Jews. There was not the fuel or the time to do so. There are problems with the 'accepted view', and standing behind the view that 'every historian from the period agrees' does NOT wash either. It is a fallacious argument and simply not true.
The Red Cross gave the figure of 300+ thousands. That number was not based on speculation or estimation, but CONFIRMED. The Red Cross figures ARE NOT COMPLETE. Few people would say that the number was accurate. The Red Cross stated that the figures were not complete. But that is the DOCUMENTED number of Jews that died.
The historical record is VERY incomplete, and has been radically revised over the centuries. That is a FACT. Much of history is JUST PLAIN WRONG. "History is a collection of agreed upon lies." ~ Voltaire | ||||
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01-14-2008, 03:49 PM
| #124 | ||||
| Banned Realist Australia
| Time Warner. The largest media conglomerate today is Time Warner (briefly called AOL-Time Warner; the AOL was dropped from the name when accounting practices at the AOL division were questioned by government investigators), which reached its current form when America Online bought Time Warner for $160 billion in 2000. The combined company had revenue of $39.5 billion in 2003. The merger brought together Steve Case, a Gentile, as chairman of AOL-Time Warner, and Gerald Levin, a Jew, as the CEO. Warner, founded by the Jewish Warner brothers in the early part of the last century, rapidly became part of the Jewish power base in Hollywood, a fact so well-known that it is openly admitted by Jewish authors, as is the fact that each new media acquisition becomes dominated by Jews in turn: Speaking of the initial merger of Time, Inc. with Warner, Jewish writer Michael Wolff said in New York magazine in 2001 "since Time Inc.'s merger with Warner ten years ago, one of the interesting transitions is that it has become a Jewish company." ("From AOL to W," New York magazine, January 29, 2001)About Murdock......Its Fox News Channel has been a key outlet pushing the Jewish neoconservative agenda that lies behind the Iraq War and which animates both the administration of George W. Bush and the "new conservatism" that embraces aggressive Zionism and multiracialism. Murdoch is nominally a Gentile, but there is some uncertainty about his ancestry and he has vigorously supported Zionism and other Jewish causes throughout his life. (Historian David Irving has published information from a claimed high-level media source who says that Murdoch's mother, Elisabeth Joy Greene, was Jewish, but we have not been able to confirm this.) Murdoch's number two executive is Peter Chernin, who is president and chief operating officer—and a Jew. AOL is the largest Internet service provider in the world, with 34 million U.S. subscribers. It is now being used as an online platform for the Jewish content from Time Warner. Jodi Kahn and Meg Siesfeld, both Jews, lead the Time Inc. Interactive team under executive editor Ned Desmond, a White Gentile. All three report to Time Inc. editor-in-chief Norman Pearlstine, a JewTime Warner's publishing division is managed by its editor-in-chief, Norman Pearlstine, a Jew. He controls 50 magazines including Time, Life, Sports Illustrated, and People. Book publishing ventures include Time-Life Books, Book-of-the-Month Club, Little Brown, and many others. Time Warner also owns Shoutcast and Winamp, the very tools that most independent Internet radio broadcasters rely on, and, as a dominant player in the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), was essentially "negotiating" with itself when Internet radio music royalty rules were set that strongly favored large content providers and forced many small broadcasters into silence. (The Register, "AOL Time Warner takes grip of net radio," 8th April 2003)In August 1995, Eisner acquired Capital Cities/ABC, Inc., which owns the ABC television network, which in turn owns ten TV stations outright in such big markets as New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Houston. In addition, in the United States ABC has 225 affiliated TV stations, over 2,900 affiliated radio stations and produces over 7,200 radio programs. ABC owns 54 radio stations and operates 57 radio stations, many in major cities such as New York, Washington, and Los Angeles. Radio Disney, part of ABC Radio Networks, provides programming targeting children.Although primarily a telecommunications company, ABC/Disney earns over $1 billion in publishing, owning Walt Disney Company Book Publishing, Hyperion Books, and Miramax Books. It also owns six daily newspapers and publishes over 20 magazines. Disney Publishing Worldwide publishes books and magazines in 55 languages in 74 countries, reaching more than 100 million readers each monthFilms produced by seven of the firms mentioned above—Disney, Warner Brothers, Paramount (Viacom), Universal (NBC Universal), 20th Century Fox (News Corp.), DreamWorks, and Columbia (Sony)—accounted for 94% of total box-office receipts for the year 2003.The resulting ability of the Jews to use the press as an unopposed instrument of Jewish policy could hardly be better illustrated than by the examples of the nation's three most prestigious and influential newspapers: the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. These three, dominating America's financial and political capitals, are the newspapers that set the trends and the guidelines for nearly all the others. They are the ones that decide what is news and what isn't at the national and international levels. They originate the news; the others merely copy it. And all three newspapers are in Jewish hands. Jew Watch - Jewish Controlled Press - Six Jewish Companies That Own 96% of the World's Media Jews In The American Media | Hollywood MORTIMER ZUCKERMAN, owner of NY Daily News, US News & World Report and chair of the Conference of Presidents of Major Jewish American Organizations, one of the largest pro-Israel lobbying groups. LESLIE MOONVES, president of CBS television, great-nephew of David Ben-Gurion, and co-chair with Norman Ornstein of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton. JONATHAN MILLER, chair and CEO of AOL division of AOL-Time-Warner NEIL SHAPIRO, president of NBC News JEFF GASPIN, Executive Vice-President, Programming, NBC DAVID WESTIN, president of ABC News SUMNER REDSTONE, CEO of Viacom, "world's biggest media giant" (Economist, 11/23/2) owns Viacom cable, CBS and MTVs all over the world, Blockbuster video rentals and Black Entertainment TV. MICHAEL EISNER, major owner of Walt Disney, Capitol Cities, ABC. RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the World (Jewish mother) MEL KARMAZIN, president of CBS DON HEWITT, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes, CBS JEFF FAGER, Exec. Director, 60 Minutes II. CBS DAVID POLTRACK, Executive Vice-President, Research and Planning, CBS SANDY KRUSHOW, Chair, Fox Entertainment LLOYD BRAUN, Chair, ABC Entertainment BARRY MEYER, chair, Warner Bros. SHERRY LANSING. President of Paramount Communications and Chairman of Paramount Pictures' Motion Picture Group. HARVEY WEINSTEIN, CEO. Miramax Films. BRAD SIEGEL., President, Turner Entertainment. PETER CHERNIN, second in-command at Rupert Murdoch's News. Corp., owner of Fox TV MARTY PERETZ, owner and publisher of the New Republic, which openly identifies itself as pro-Israel. Al Gore credits Marty with being his "mentor." ARTHUR O. SULZBERGER, JR., publisher of the NY Times, the Boston Globe and other publications. WILLIAM SAFIRE, syndicated columnist for the NYT. TOM FRIEDMAN, syndicated columnist for the NYT. CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. Honored by Honest Reporting.com, website monitoring "anti-Israel media." RICHARD COHEN, syndicated columnist for the Washington Post JEFF JACOBY, syndicated columnist for the Boston Globe NORMAN ORNSTEIN, American Enterprise Inst., regular columnist for USA Today, news analyst for CBS, and co-chair with Leslie Moonves of the Advisory Committee on Public Interest Obligation of Digital TV Producers, appointed by Clinton. ARIE FLEISCHER, Dubya's press secretary. STEPHEN EMERSON, every media outlet's first choice as an expert on domestic terrorism. DAVID SCHNEIDERMAN, owner of the Village Voice and the New Times network of "alternative weeklies." DENNIS LEIBOWITZ, head of Act II Partners, a media hedge fund KENNETH POLLACK, for CIA analysts, director of Saban Center for Middle East Policy, writes op-eds in NY Times, New Yorker BARRY DILLER, chair of USA Interactive, former owner of Universal Entertainment KENNETH ROTH, Executive Director of Human Rights Watch RICHARD LEIBNER, runs the N.S. Bienstock talent agency, which represents 600 news personalities such as Dan Rather, Dianne Sawyer and Bill O'Reilly. TERRY SEMEL, CEO, Yahoo, former chair, Warner Bros. MARK GOLIN, VP and Creative Director, AOL WARREN LIEBERFORD, Pres., Warner Bros. Home Video Div. of AOL- TimeWarner JEFFREY ZUCKER, President of NBC Entertainment JACK MYERS, NBC, chief.NYT 5.14.2 SANDY GRUSHOW, chair of Fox Entertainment GAIL BERMAN, president of Fox Entertainment STEPHEN SPIELBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks JEFFREY KATZENBERG, co-owner of Dreamworks DAVID GEFFEN, co-owner of Dreamworks LLYOD BRAUN, chair of ABC Entertainment JORDAN LEVIN, president of Warner Bros. Entertainment MAX MUTCHNICK, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami" DAVID KOHAN, co-executive producer of NBC's "Good Morning Miami" HOWARD STRINGER, chief of Sony Corp. of America AMY PASCAL, chair of Columbia Pictures JOEL KLEIN, chair and CEO of Bertelsmann's American operations ROBERT SILLERMAN, founder of Clear Channel Communications BRIAN GRADEN, president of MTV entertainment IVAN SEIDENBERG, CEO of Verizon Communications WOLF BLITZER, host of CNN's Late Edition LARRY KING, host of Larry King Live TED KOPPEL, host of ABC's Nightline ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN Reporter PAULA ZAHN, CNN Host MIKE WALLACE, Host of CBS, 60 Minutes BARBARA WALTERS, Host, ABC's 20-20 MICHAEL LEDEEN, editor of National Review BRUCE NUSSBAUM, editorial page editor, Business Week DONALD GRAHAM, Chair and CEO of Newsweek and Washington Post, son of CATHERINE GRAHAM MEYER, former owner of the Washington Post HOWARD FINEMAN, Chief Political Columnist, Newsweek WILLIAM KRISTOL, Editor, Weekly Standard, Exec. Director Project for a New American Century (PNAC) RON ROSENTHAL, Managing Editor, San Francisco Chronicle PHIL BRONSTEIN, Executive Editor, San Francisco Chronicle, RON OWENS, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) JOHN ROTHMAN, Talk Show Host, KGO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) MICHAEL SAVAGE, Talk Show Host, KFSO (ABC-Capitol Cities, San Francisco) Syndicated in 100 markets MICHAEL MEDVED, Talk Show Host, on 124 AM stations DENNIS PRAGER, Talk Show Host, nationally syndicated from LA. Has Israeli flag on his home page. BEN WATTENBERG, Moderator, PBS Think Tank. ANDREW LACK, president of NBC DANIEL MENAKER, Executive Director, Harper Collins DAVID REMNICK, Editor, The New Yorker NICHOLAS LEHMANN, writer, the New York HENRICK HERTZBERG, Talk of the Town editor, The New Yorker SAMUEL NEWHOUSE JR, and DONALD NEWHOUSE own Newhouse Publications, includes 26 newspapers in 22 cities; the Conde Nast magazine group, includes The New Yorker; Parade, the Sunday newspaper supplement; American City Business Journals, business newspapers published in more than 30 major cities in America; and interests in cable television programming and cable systems serving 1 million homes. DONALD NEWHOUSE, chairman of the board of directors, Associated Press. PETER R KANN, CEO, Wall Street Journal, Barron's RALPH J. & BRIAN ROBERTS, Owners, Comcast-ATT Cable TV. LAWRENCE KIRSHBAUM, CEO, AOL-Time Warner Book Group ================================= RUPERT MURDOCH, Owner Fox TV, New York Post, London Times, News of the World (Jewish mother) During the lead up to the U.S. invasion of and war in Iraq, the editors of Murdoch's 175 media holdings vociferously supported President George W. Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair's pro-war campaign. One British newspaper opined: "You have got to admit that Rupert Murdoch is one canny press tycoon because he has an unerring ability to choose editors across the world who think just like him. How else can we explain the extraordinary unity of thought in his newspaper empire about the need to make war on Iraq? After an exhaustive survey of the highest-selling and most influential papers across the world owned by Murdoch's News Corporation, it is clear that all are singing from the same hymn sheet. Some are bellicose baritone soloists who relish the fight. Some prefer a less strident, if more subtle, role in the chorus. But none, whether fortissimo or pianissimo, has dared to croon the anti-war tune. Their master's voice has never been questioned" (Guardian, February 17, 2003). http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1304 Last edited by motivez; 01-14-2008 at 07:36 PM.. Reason: cut & paste w/ no opinion, merged posts | ||||
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01-14-2008, 03:54 PM
| #125 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher So where are they?
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01-14-2008, 04:00 PM
| #126 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher how many ukranians have built museums to honor the people who died?
it's not my responsibility to build a museum for them, just like I didn't build any for the jews.
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01-14-2008, 04:06 PM
| #127 | ||||
| Member Republican
| Originally Posted by 7960 That is not how science or history works my friend. To set the historical record, you must provide evidence of the events. A portion of the accepted history of the period is based on specious reasoning and estimation. There is a place for speculation in history, so the official view SHOULD be considered. But since there is a place for speculation in history, revisiting the events for accuracy IS NOT A CRIME, or a HERESY, and should be considered as well.
How much of the testimony gathered by Torquemada is viewed as 'empirical' evidence  BTW.... can you find any mention of the "HOLOCAUST" dated before the early '70's? How about the date of the 6 million figure? | ||||
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01-14-2008, 04:11 PM
| #128 | ||||
| Member Republican
| Originally Posted by 7960 You mean, how many museums were built by the Soviets to honor the people they murdered don't you? The Ukrainians are honoring their dead and recovering their history now. It will take time as they are only now beginning to be able to discuss such matters publicly without overt repression from their government.
Poland did not fund the world's Holocaust museums, so I don't see where you are going with this.
If you are an American taxpayer, you have indeed funded Holocaust museums. You have also funded Holocaust 'education'. | ||||
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01-14-2008, 04:12 PM
| #129 | ||||
| Member Republican
| Originally Posted by 7960 So tell me, where did you learn about the Holocaust? Did you have the choice to abstain from the lessons?
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01-14-2008, 04:15 PM
| #130 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher Evidence to the events has been presented. The evidence is verwhelming, the holocaust happened the way the books say. NOW if you want to refute it YOU have to disprove it.
 strawman......did he gather 16 miles of files and records that backed what he found?
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01-14-2008, 04:21 PM
| #131 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher
 Wait........ for decades the jews were still persecuted and then they recovered their history and now they have museums and all that shit. But because the ukranians are just now doing it somehow that's a ding on the jews for having already done it? You're going to slap the jews for building a museum in boston? Last I checked there are plenty of ukranians in boston..........why didn't THEY build a museum for their dead?
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01-14-2008, 04:23 PM
| #132 | ||||
| I'm your huckleberry!  Independent Ohio
| Originally Posted by RockPusher Schindler's List (and yes I paid to see the movie so I could have abstained), numerous documentaries on television, news articles, etc. It was never taught in my school, but then again I went to school a while ago.
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01-14-2008, 04:27 PM
| #133 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by RockPusher This should be in the dictionary under "intellectual dishonestly."
If you really believe this then I guess we shouldn't have history class at all because all it does is teach us to "feel pity for" some folks. WTF. I've got better things to do. | ||||
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01-14-2008, 04:30 PM
| #134 | ||||
| Banned Realist Australia
| Originally Posted by tbone So the Jewish media were kind enough to educate you
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01-14-2008, 04:32 PM
| #135 | ||||
| Member  Liberal
| Originally Posted by DavidHenry If you feel that there is demand for a movie that deals with Ukranian suffering during WWII then go ahead and make one.
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