Democratic confusion: no to emergency security measures, yes to thermostat control

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Then they can upgrade the utilities' abilities. Seems simple!

No arguement there. But assuming we get immediate approval for 3 new nuclear plants, what should we do for the next 15 years before they get brought online? Demand for power goes up every year.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

I'm sure they will raise their energy and other taxes to afford this plan as well. Imagine the millions in cost just to purchase the units and have them all installed. Holy fuck.

36 million people live in CA. These units will cost at least $10 a pop. Probably more like $50-100 but I'm going low. So that is $360,000,000 plus an hour labor for each house with a city employee making $20+ an hour so add another $720,000,000 to that. Now we are at over a BILLION dollars already. My God.....

Um... the article states these thermostats would only be installed in new buildings... not retrofitted everywhere.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

No arguement there. But assuming we get immediate approval for 3 new nuclear plants, what should we do for the next 15 years before they get brought online? Demand for power goes up every year.

Voluntary incentives work.

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Thats a ficticous number.

IMO he rounded up in some places and down in others......I bet his guess isn't that far off.

Jurisdiction Profile Overview - California Waste Stream Profiles

11,500,000 households in california, at $10/unit (and it's going to be more) that's $115,000,000

Installation....I've never had a plumber/electrician/serviceman come to my house for less than $125. Maybe the state will subsidize some of it, call it $50 per unit. That's $565,000,000.

I have no idea what the software to run the system is going to cost but it won't be free. And then maintenance, and staffing, and 50 other things I'm leaving out.

So ignoring a bunch of shit that shouldn't be ignored I'm at $650,000,000 just for the unit and installation.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

IMO he rounded up in some places and down in others......I bet his guess isn't that far off.

Jurisdiction Profile Overview - California Waste Stream Profiles

11,500,000 households in california, at $10/unit (and it's going to be more) that's $115,000,000

Installation....I've never had a plumber/electrician/serviceman come to my house for less than $125. Maybe the state will subsidize some of it, call it $50 per unit. That's $565,000,000.

I have no idea what the software to run the system is going to cost but it won't be free. And then maintenance, and staffing, and 50 other things I'm leaving out.

So ignoring a bunch of shit that shouldn't be ignored I'm at $650,000,000 just for the unit and installation.

Which part of the first post did you not read?

Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

It doesn't matter how many households are in California because they won't be retrofitted in existing buildings.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Simius

Which part of the first post did you not read?

Next year in California, state regulators are likely to have the emergency power to control individual thermostats, sending temperatures up or down through a radio-controlled device that will be required in new or substantially modified houses and buildings to manage electricity shortages.

It doesn't matter how many households are in California because they won't be retrofitted in existing buildings.

what does "or substantially modified houses and buildings" mean?

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 7960

what does "or substantially modified houses and buildings" mean?

Remodeled.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

what does "or substantially modified houses and buildings" mean?

It means that estimate is entirely baseless.

[7960]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

Remodeled.

so if you pull a building permit it's going to get the govt's eye on your heat

no matter how you cut it up their solution is going to cost in the hundreds of millions

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

so if you pull a building permit it's going to get the govt's eye on your heat

no matter how you cut it up their solution is going to cost in the hundreds of millions

And the requirement that doorways now need to be wide enough for a wheelchair is going to cost in the hundreds of trillions.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Simius

And the requirement that doorways now need to be wide enough for a wheelchair is going to cost in the hundreds of trillions.

going from a 36" to a 40" door isn't going to, no, but it would if there had to be some physical tracking device installed that sends info back to a central location that tracks it

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

going from a 36" to a 40" door isn't going to, no, but it would if there had to be some physical tracking device installed that sends info back to a central location that tracks it

I'm pretty sure it is more expensive to widen a doorway than it is to install a flipping radio transmitter.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Simius

I'm pretty sure it is more expensive to widen a doorway

I just did it. It cost $8.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by 7960

I just did it. It cost $8.

A 40" door costs more than $8.


Aw fuck it. You are right. All other safety/access/whatever regulations cost only pennies to implement. But this one, with this newfangled radio transmitter, will cripple CAs economy. How could anyone possibly afford to buy a new $10-$50 thermostat when remodeling their home. Impossible I tell you.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Simius

Um... the article states these thermostats would only be installed in new buildings... not retrofitted everywhere.

Ah. So what good is that going to do anyone? If they are already having rolling blackouts and they are only going to add this to new buildings... Do you see what I am getting at? Here let me explain.

There are 36,000,000 people (rounded off) in CA. Let's say there are 10,000,000 buildings that house people. So there are 10,000,000 buildings using 100% of the energy. They can't always guarantee electricity to every day of every year.

There is a housing slump, or so I am told, so however many buildings they make a year will be lower than normal. Say it grows at 2%. That ADDS 200,000 homes. So 200,000 more homes will need electricity and they will get the mandated government controlled thermostats.

If they can't even give 10,000,000 homes electricity all the time, how is adding a new thermostat to an ADDITIONAL 200,000 (now up to 10,200,000) going to fix that?



How are you guys not even thinking about this stuff? Are you that duped to think Democrats are so wonderful that anything out of their mouths is FANTASTIC.

[Simius]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Ah. So what good is that going to do anyone? If they are already having rolling blackouts and they are only going to add this to new buildings... Do you see what I am getting at? Here let me explain.

There are 36,000,000 people (rounded off) in CA. Let's say there are 10,000,000 buildings that house people. So there are 10,000,000 buildings using 100% of the energy. They can't always guarantee electricity to every day of every year.

There is a housing slump, or so I am told, so however many buildings they make a year will be lower than normal. Say it grows at 2%. That ADDS 200,000 homes. So 200,000 more homes will need electricity and they will get the mandated government controlled thermostats.

If they can't even give 10,000,000 homes electricity all the time, how is adding a new thermostat to an ADDITIONAL 200,000 (now up to 10,200,000) going to fix that?



How are you guys not even thinking about this stuff? Are you that duped to think Democrats are so wonderful that anything out of their mouths is FANTASTIC.

One benefit is the increase of electricity usage from year to year during peak times will be reduced. If 100KW are being used today, and 110 KW will be used a year from now without this... they can reduce that to 105KW being used at peak times a year from now with these devices. That gives some breathing room so the brown outs don't get worse as quickly and so that there is a bit more time to fix the problems without them getting even worse.

I think it is dumb idea and I don't support it. But at the same time I don't respect lies even if they back my opinion. Point is, it won't cost a trillion dollars or whatever number was being thrown out there. But it is dumb for other reasons.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Simius

A 40" door costs more than $8.

Hold on.....it's the difference when you pull a permit. I was going to put in a 36" door and changed it to 40". The difference was $8.

But if someone pulls a permit and needs to put in that heater/big brother/eyeball then they're going to be paying the difference.......how much is that?

Aw fuck it. You are right. All other safety/access/whatever regulations cost only pennies to implement. But this one, with this newfangled radio transmitter, will cripple CAs economy. How could anyone possibly afford to buy a new $10-$50 thermostat when remodeling their home. Impossible I tell you.

Ahh yes, force govt intrusion into my living room *AND* make me pay for it. Nice.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Simius

One benefit is the increase of electricity usage from year to year during peak times will be reduced. If 100KW are being used today, and 110 KW will be used a year from now without this... they can reduce that to 105KW being used at peak times a year from now with these devices. That gives some breathing room so the brown outs don't get worse as quickly and so that there is a bit more time to fix the problems without them getting even worse.

I think it is dumb idea and I don't support it. But at the same time I don't respect lies even if they back my opinion. Point is, it won't cost a trillion dollars or whatever number was being thrown out there. But it is dumb for other reasons.

If they can't do it at 100 KW how are they going to be able to do it at 105 KW ? You are making no sense.