*youtube* Democrats try to get an effort to vote for Mitt in Michigan Primary

[Thorgrim]

Tommorow, Jan 15th, is Michigan's "Open" Primary, unlike New Hampshire's partially open primary, where independents can vote in either, and that's it...in Michigan, all the Democrats could overpower the Republicans and vote for say Cox (he's a guy running you've never heard of...) and win him the race

Ofcourse, such an effort would take so much time/money/effort...and the payoff...meh

But there is an online campaign going to get Democrats to vote for Mitt Romney because

A) He loves running GOP attack ads against his opponents
B) It produces 3 different winners, if Rudy wins NV, and Thompson SC, that'd be 5 different winners and total chaos come Florida/Super Tuesday
C) He is almost certainly the worst candidate the GOP can offer as far as electability goes (Huckabee is close but he's actually likeable and he's not an empty suit)

YouTube Video

Ofcourse, the disadvantage of being in a party that is divided is that many online are questioning the ethics of this...even though it's perfectly legal, and the GOP has done it in Michigan at least 4 times to screw over the Democratic party...all legal, as opposed to illegal GOP tactics like phone jamming in 2002 by Sen. Sununu

I've tried to tell them that the world is too polarized and no one is going to give them cookies if they stick to their useless primary and don't use their vote to help the Democratic Party through a legal means, but a significant chunk (online anyway, the same online community that has Edwards winning 70% of their support) think if we do this, Republicans and Independents will think Democrats are political hacks

I'm serious, it's so ridiculous, they don't realize that no matter what Democrats say or do, we'll always be called unethical political hacks, the least we can do is use all legal means to win

[lew]

I understand that they want the Democrats to win, but I don't understand why they wouldn't vote for the only anti-war Republican in the race.


I guess to them, politics is above principles, not that I'm surprised.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by lew

I understand that they want the Democrats to win, but I don't understand why they wouldn't vote for the only anti-war Republican in the race.


I guess to them, politics is above principles, not that I'm surprised.

Straw man argument...(my word of the day for some reason)

Why would Democrats who are 100% for raising taxes on those making over 250,000 a year want to vote "on principle" for someone who wants to dramatically lower taxes for those making over 250,000 a year?

[JaJae]

This is actually a pretty smart move if enough people do it. Hillary has Michigan in the bag, even if she's humiliated by people voting for a no-named candidate. It's another option, if you don't feel like wasting a vote on Hillary (who will win regardless), embarrassing Hillary, you might as well vote for who will help your cause the most.

[motivez]

Open primaries are stupid I think, if you're running for the nomination of a specific party, it should be open to members of that party and no one else.

Too many people I think feel like primary elections are the same as the general elections and should be able to participate regardless, but really it's about that party selecting a nominee to put up in the general election.

[garbagemanlb]

Here's to extending the GOP primary that much longer and weakening them that much more.

[garbagemanlb]

but yes, open primaries are stupid.

[ballz2wallz]

I think open primaries are fine. It's the democratic process. No matter who I'm registered for, I should be able to vote for the person I want as president, no matter what stage of the campaign.

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I think open primaries are fine. It's the democratic process. No matter who I'm registered for, I should be able to vote for the person I want as president, no matter what stage of the campaign.

And you can...during the actual election. Write in someone if your favorite candidate didn't make it that far.

I wouldn't put it past either party to organize votes in open primaries to nominate weaker opponents for the general election. Our system is dirty, and open primaries just make it that much more vulnerable to despicable tactics.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

And you can...during the actual election. Write in someone if your favorite candidate didn't make it that far.

I wouldn't put it past either party to organize votes in open primaries to nominate weaker opponents for the general election. Our system is dirty, and open primaries just make it that much more vulnerable to despicable tactics.

With the ability to vote only once, that just means they waste their vote if they vote for someone they don't like.

I think it all works out in the end.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by motivez

Open primaries are stupid I think, if you're running for the nomination of a specific party, it should be open to members of that party and no one else.

Too many people I think feel like primary elections are the same as the general elections and should be able to participate regardless, but really it's about that party selecting a nominee to put up in the general election.

well maybe keep independents/non affiliated able to vote either way, but lock in democrats or republicans to voting in their party........

[motivez]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

I think open primaries are fine. It's the democratic process. No matter who I'm registered for, I should be able to vote for the person I want as president, no matter what stage of the campaign.

Yeah, but you, as a Republican, shouldn't be able to sabotage a primary by voting in a Democratic primary for the person you think is the least electable candidate, which is what some of the Daily Kos people are doing

It's legal, sure, but it's most definitely unethical and goes against the function of a primary

Let's not forget, a primary isn't an election for President, you aren't being disenfranchised by being prevented from participating in a party primary.. as it's only a contest to see who the party will put up in it's nomination for the Presidency

Open primaries are like people who never shop at Macy's being allowed to vote on employee of the month for the store, it doesn't make any sense

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

well maybe keep independents/non affiliated able to vote either way, but lock in democrats or republicans to voting in their party........

It's not a bad compromise, but then there's still nothing to prevent people from registering as an Independent to sabotage a primary.. which should be prevented for the integrity of the process for all parties

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, but you, as a Republican, shouldn't be able to sabotage a primary by voting in a Democratic primary for the person you think is the least electable candidate, which is what some of the Daily Kos people are doing

It's legal, sure, but it's most definitely unethical and goes against the function of a primary

Let's not forget, a primary isn't an election for President, you aren't being disenfranchised by being prevented from participating in a party primary.. as it's only a contest to see who the party will put up in it's nomination for the Presidency

Open primaries are like people who never shop at Macy's being allowed to vote on employee of the month for the store, it doesn't make any sense

American's should be able to vote for whoever they want, no matter their motive. Who are you to judge their intentions, the thought police?

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's not a bad compromise, but then there's still nothing to prevent people from registering as an Independent to sabotage a primary.. which should be prevented for the integrity of the process for all parties

that argument could be made for anyone. i switched my affiliation from non affiliated to republican just so i can vote for McCain next month. who's to say that others wouldn't do that either???

[motivez]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

American's should be able to vote for whoever they want, no matter their motive. Who are you to judge their intentions, the thought police?

I think you're misunderstanding the fundamental difference between a primary and the general election.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

that argument could be made for anyone. i switched my affiliation from non affiliated to republican just so i can vote for McCain next month. who's to say that others wouldn't do that either???

They would, but the idea is to prevent as much abuse of the system as possible.. so the parties get the candidate they want, and not a candidate that people who'll never vote for the candidate in the election want as a method to sabotage the other party, like the Democrats are trying to do here, and as the Republicans have done in the past.

Closed primaries (only open to members of that party) are the best way to combat it, with reasonable deadlines for party affiliation switches.. but long enough away that the fervor that goes along with the process doesn't play as big of a role

I'm not suggesting once you make a party affiliation choice you're stuck with it forever.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think you're misunderstanding the fundamental difference between a primary and the general election.

No, I'm not. I think you're trying to force a fundamental difference upon the two. It's simple, I get to vote for who I want for president, at any point in the campaign or elections.

[motivez]

Force a fundamental difference upon the two? I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.. there are fundamental differences inherent in the process

You do get to vote for who you want to be the President.. in the general elections, regardless of what party you're in

The nomination process is specifically for Republicans though, to elect the best candidate that the most Republicans want to see as the party nominee, you're okay with Democrats going in and trying to help someone who most Republicans don't want win, even though they have no intention of voting for a Republican in the general election?