Administration outlines foiled plots (AP)

[Ron Burgundy]

AP - Foiled terrorist plots, according to the Director of National Intelligence and President Bush's speech on Wednesday:

Foiled terrorist plots, according to the Director of National Intelligence and
President Bush's speech on Wednesday:

• In 2002, officials disrupted a plot by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, to crash hijacked airplanes into targets on the U.S. West Coast.

_In mid-2004, officials discovered a plan to bomb urban targets in the United Kingdom.

_Terrorists involved in a well-advanced plot to attack targets in Karachi, Pakistan, were detained in the spring of 2003.

_A plan to use hijacked commercial airplanes to attack London's Heathrow Airport was disrupted in 2003.

_A plot to attack ships in the Persian Gulf was foiled in late 2002 and early 2003.

_One of the plotters involved in the plan to attack ships in the Gulf was also part of a foiled plot to attack ships in the Strait of Hormuz.

_After a plan to blow up tall buildings in the U.S. was disrupted, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said he directed his operatives to attack the buildings because they were too tall for victims to jump out of, ensuring they would die by smoke inhalation.

_In early 2004, a captured al-Qaida facilitator revealed a plan to send suicide truck bombers into Camp Lemonier, a Marine Corps base in the African nation of Djibouti. This information caused security at the base to be enhanced.

• In his speech, Bush said Mohammed and a terrorist named Yazid provided vital information on al-Qaida's efforts to obtain biological weapons that allowed officials to capture two other terrorists involved in producing anthrax for al-Qaida.

[ballz2wallz]

ibthey'renotreal

[ballz2wallz]

i'm really surprised nobody wants to mention this. here we have a nice outline of some foiled terrorist plots in the midst of questions flying around (even on LL) of 'what has bush done to make us safer'...and nobody wants to comment?

[JaJae]

Moved to the floor for comments.

[WickedLou9]

I am glad that they have been able to stop these people before they act but I don't really know if that means we are safer.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I am glad that they have been able to stop these people before they act but I don't really know if that means we are safer.

if anything, it at least shows that the government is just sitting idley by...

[Publius]

Our government foiled terror plots before the USA PATRIOT Act trampled on our rights too, they just didn't pat themselves on the back in public as often by publishing lists like this.

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by Publius

they just didn't pat themselves on the back in public as often by publishing lists like this.

you know very well the only reason they publish lists like this is because they are continuously criticized about not doing anything at all. you can clearly see this in LL alone.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Publius

Our government foiled terror plots before the USA PATRIOT Act trampled on our rights too, they just didn't pat themselves on the back in public as often by publishing lists like this.

it would be interesting to know if these plots would have been discovered had the patriot act not been "involved"

[WickedLou9]

Since we are usually not made aware of these sort of 'busts' , I wonder if this normal or not? Like How many terrorists plots were foiled during Reagan, Bush Sr. and Clinton administrations?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

it would be interesting to know if these plots would have been discovered had the patriot act not been "involved"

That's a hard thing to determine.

I would, however, like to see numbers of terror plots foiled before and after the patriot act... I would expect to see more after the patriot act simply because I assume there have been more terrorist plots since we started this Iraq stuff, but just to get a feel for the numbers would be kinda interesting.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's a hard thing to determine.

I would, however, like to see numbers of terror plots foiled before and after the patriot act... I would expect to see more after the patriot act simply because I assume there have been more terrorist plots since we started this Iraq stuff, but just to get a feel for the numbers would be kinda interesting.

it wouldn't be hard if they said "we found them using *this* information that we would not have had access to without the patriot act"

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

it wouldn't be hard if they said "we found them using *this* information that we would not have had access to without the patriot act"

Unless old methods would have also foiled the plot

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Unless old methods would have also foiled the plot

I'm assuming they didn't stop using "old methods" when they also starting using "new methods."

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

I'm assuming they didn't stop using "old methods" when they also starting using "new methods."

I'm sure they didn't either, but if they use both, how can you say you wouldn't have foiled the plot without the shit you now have available to you, amirite?

For instance, if they used to only be able to do A to track plots, but now they can use B, then they're using A and B simultaneously, so all modern data where B is used is biased toward B, whereas A may have generated similar results.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I'm sure they didn't either, but if they use both, how can you say you wouldn't have foiled the plot without the shit you now have available to you, amirite?

For instance, if they used to only be able to do A to track plots, but now they can use B, then they're using A and B simultaneously, so all modern data where B is used is biased toward B, whereas A may have generated similar results.

It would be easy for them to make the argument "we caught these guys using bank records that we would not have been legally available before the patriot act."

Of course the bank records *may* have eventually turned up using pre-patriot act methods, but they also may not have, and they can say that the patriot act is responsible for this data being available.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

It would be easy for them to make the argument "we caught these guys using bank records that we would not have been legally available before the patriot act."

Of course the bank records *may* have eventually turned up using pre-patriot act methods, but they also may not have, and they can say that the patriot act is responsible for this data being available.

I just don't know if I'd trust data like that fully, because we still don't know if a similar result would have been achieved without that method

[ballz2wallz]

Originally Posted by 7960

it wouldn't be hard if they said "we found them using *this* information that we would not have had access to without the patriot act"

oh yeah, there you go, tell the world your techniques of busting terrorists. that'll sure get them to continue doing what they are doing.

[SpicyMcVoodoo]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

i'm really surprised nobody wants to mention this. here we have a nice outline of some foiled terrorist plots in the midst of questions flying around (even on LL) of 'what has bush done to make us safer'...and nobody wants to comment?

'What has bush done to make us safer?' is a straw man. I don't think anyone claims that bush has done absolutely nothing. It's just a question of whether there's a net gain after Iraq, and whether we'd be even safer if those resources went toward bolstering our defenses at home.

[motivez]

liberty > security

It's unfortunate that this Administration believes we must give up liberties that people have fought and died for for some false sense of security.

Looks like the majority of those examples are overseas as well. I don't feel safer knowing that we've created more terrorists than we've killed thanks to Iraq.