Bush Administration made 935 false statements on Iraq

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

Interesting that you'd say they voted how they did back then because of politics but wouldn't think they're only admitting to being wrong now because of politics. Obviously now they're telling the truth.

There's those who say they're wrong because of politics, and there's those who say they're wrong because they truly are able to admit when they're wrong

I'm sure if it was going swimmingly, people wouldn't be nearly as willing to say they made a mistake, but like I posted elsewhere.. ifs and buts don't really matter

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

Yeah, there's no such thing as PNAC.. and they never advocated invading Iraq prior to 2001.

They did in '98, to get rid of saddam because he was "one of the leading terrorists on the face of the earth."

He said there was a plan to "invade iraq for non-terrorist reasons."

I said he was full of shit.

What did I miss?

[tbone]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Which reports were those? Hell, other countries were still saying they were trying to get WMD's.

Reports from the CIA as late as the year 2000 said Iraq had WMD's:

Unclassified Report to Congress, July - December 2000
https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/...ly_dec2000.htm

However intelligence after Sept. 11, 2001 cast doubt and speculate earlier reports were wrong, Bush has access to all of this, Congress only had access to early reports and what Bush chose to release. Many of those reports are still classified, but some information has been leaked.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A January 2003 CIA report raised doubts about a claim that al Qaeda sent operatives to Iraq to acquire chemical and biological weapons -- assertions that were repeated later by then-Secretary of State Colin Powell to the United Nations in making the case for the invasion of Iraq.

CNN.com - Prewar CIA report*doubted claim that al Qaeda sought WMD in Iraq - Nov 11, 2005

[RMNIXON]

"Named in the study along with Bush were top officials of the administration during the period studied: Vice President Dick Cheney, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and White House press secretaries Ari Fleischer and Scott McClellan.

Bush led with 259 false statements, 231 about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 28 about Iraq's links to al-Qaida, the study found. That was second only to Powell's 244 false statements about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and 10 about Iraq and al-Qaida.
The center said the study was based on a database created with public statements over the two years beginning on Sept. 11, 2001, and information from more than 25 government reports, books, articles, speeches and interviews."



This may be the most anal retentive study ever produced?


Should I bother to point out that "false statements" are not in anyway proof of lying or deliberate deception. The many intelligence studies and Congressional hearings have concluded their was no manipulation of intelligence to get us into Iraq. In fact the so-called pressure from the VP's Office was not to change anything, but to get better justification for what the intelligence people were saying.

If you don't like Iraq policy fine. But this is really pointless. With Betrayus the Nutroots got some emotion behind it. But this just looks like a pathetic attempt to bring up old resentments.

[DosEquis]

I think my head just exploded.

[7960]

I'd like to know who determined what's a "false statement", the criteria used, and how objective that person was.

[phreak]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

The many intelligence studies and Congressional hearings have concluded their was no manipulation of intelligence to get us into Iraq. In fact the so-called pressure from the VP's Office was not to change anything, but to get better justification for what the intelligence people were saying.

FactCheck.org: Iraq: What Did Congress Know, And When?

[DosEquis]

To me false statement would be in a different category than a lie. I would imagine the critieria was taking a previous statement that was used to justify invading.. that ended up being false after we arrived there.

Things like saddam has stockpiles of wmd and as it turns out...he didn't.

If you ask me this whole thing was completely fucking stupid from day 1, spanning multiple administrations, based on plans from these people with an ideology that we need militarism to control certain regions of the world for our 'national interests'.

[kinggovernor]

SEN. CLINTON: I was fully briefed by the people who wrote that. I was briefed by the people from, you know, the State Department, the CIA, the Department of Defense; all of the various players in that. And many people who read it--well, actually, not very many people read the whole thing because we were getting constant briefings. And people--some people read it and voted for the resolution, some people read it and voted against the resolution. I felt very well briefed. And it wasn't just what the Bush administration was telling us in the NIE, I went way outside of any kind of Bush administration sources; independent people, people from the Clinton administration, people in the British government. I looked as broadly as I could at how to assess this.

Jan. 13: Hillary Clinton - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC - MSNBC.com

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

SEN. CLINTON: I was fully briefed by the people who wrote that. I was briefed by the people from, you know, the State Department, the CIA, the Department of Defense; all of the various players in that. And many people who read it--well, actually, not very many people read the whole thing because we were getting constant briefings. And people--some people read it and voted for the resolution, some people read it and voted against the resolution. I felt very well briefed. And it wasn't just what the Bush administration was telling us in the NIE, I went way outside of any kind of Bush administration sources; independent people, people from the Clinton administration, people in the British government. I looked as broadly as I could at how to assess this.

Jan. 13: Hillary Clinton - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC - MSNBC.com

Either she is lying or you just deflated a lot of balloons in this thread

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Either she is lying or you just deflated a lot of balloons in this thread

try to read it or look it up on youtube and she how it takes 10 minutes for her to explain her Iraq position but the listener is just left more confused than before.

[7960]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

SEN. CLINTON: I was fully briefed by the people who wrote that. I was briefed by the people from, you know, the State Department, the CIA, the Department of Defense; all of the various players in that. And many people who read it--well, actually, not very many people read the whole thing because we were getting constant briefings. And people--some people read it and voted for the resolution, some people read it and voted against the resolution. I felt very well briefed. And it wasn't just what the Bush administration was telling us in the NIE, I went way outside of any kind of Bush administration sources; independent people, people from the Clinton administration, people in the British government. I looked as broadly as I could at how to assess this.

Jan. 13: Hillary Clinton - Meet the Press, online at MSNBC - MSNBC.com

She only *thinks* she got the information. In reality the generals and spies and CIA and shit give info to the administration and they edit it, change it, and fabricate it and "leave shit out" and *then* she got it. See? She was led to believe she knew all of it when really she only found out what they wanted her to know!!!

[Scrum]

So I guess it was just a coincidence that nearly everyone in the administration wanted to invade Iraq pre-9/11? And it's a total lie that after 9/11 they were asking intelligence people to find some way, any way, to pin it on Iraq? More coincidence that they tried to tie 9/11 to Iraq in the public eye using the media (which there was zero intelligence to support)?

But hey, everyone believe what you want. I guess some people really do believe that the Bush administration had no ulterior motives about Iraq. They just happened to be wrong and that's that.

No amount to "but the democrats did this too!" erases the misleading statements and the fact that these guys were dead wrong. Do we not even hold our leaders responsible for being wrong anymore?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Scrum

So I guess it was just a coincidence that nearly everyone in the administration wanted to invade Iraq pre-9/11? And it's a total lie that after 9/11 they were asking intelligence people to find some way, any way, to pin it on Iraq? More coincidence that they tried to tie 9/11 to Iraq in the public eye using the media (which there was zero intelligence to support)?

But hey, everyone believe what you want.

Why not? Apparently you are.

"zero intelligence" is completely wrong.

FactCheck.org: Iraq: What Did Congress Know, And When?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Either she is lying or you just deflated a lot of balloons in this thread

So Hillary is telling the truth now instead of providing herself political cover for an unpopular vote?

What happened to her saying whatever was necessary to get elected?

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by 7960

Why not? Apparently you are.

"zero intelligence" is completely wrong.

FactCheck.org: Iraq: What Did Congress Know, And When?

There is nothing in that link saying that there was a 9/11-Iraq connection.

Zero Intelligence is completely correct.

[Stylerod]

This should be interesting on 60 minutes

Interrogator: Invasion Surprised Saddam, Tells 60 Minutes Former Dictator Bragged About Eluding Capture - CBS News

Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture....

He also intended and had the wherewithal to restart the weapons program. "Saddam still had the engineers. The folks that he needed to reconstitute his program are still there," says Piro. "He wanted to pursue all of WMD…to reconstitute his entire WMD program." This included chemical, biological and nuclear weapons, Piro says.

[IminWonderland]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

This should be interesting on 60 minutes

How long from talking about invasion to landing in their sand? Like, a couple months?

I wonder if that is when he said it, surely he was even briefed about our attack, it wasn't like we suprised them.

I think the context of Saddam saying that, as well as when is more important than him saying it.

The administration statements were hardly responsive, but offensive in their pressure to make this war happen. We were an offensive team from the start.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by IminWonderland

How long from talking about invasion to landing in their sand? Like, a couple months?

I wonder if that is when he said it, surely he was even briefed about our attack, it wasn't like we suprised them.

I think the context of Saddam saying that, as well as when is more important than him saying it.

The administration statements were hardly responsive, but offensive in their pressure to make this war happen. We were an offensive team from the start.

I think he was surprised. He was used to doing whatever he wanted without consequence. Even going against his signed peace treaty.

And Iraqi Regime change was a US policy since 1998, signed for by Clinton.