Florida Republican Debate Analysis

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by JaJae

How many questions did he get regarding his newsletter fiasco?

it was a very cordial, civil debate

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

I did like the exposure of McCain's lack of knowledge when it came to economics.

A few more opinions:

ConnieTalk: Florida Republican Debate: MSNBC Joins Media Censoring Ron Paul

Ron Paul in MSNBC's GOP Debate: A Victorious Loss!

Ron Paul wins Florida Republican Debate, McCain stumbles on Economy - There was a strong anti war pro Ron Paul crowd...

International opinion:

DEBATE WRAP-UP: RON PAUL IS THE REAL REPUBLICAN AD HOC NEWS

Example of media bias calling Paul the "fifth candidate:"

GOP Debate - WPTV NewsChannel 5

and from someone who is "not a fan of Paul:"

National Ledger - Republican Debate: Mitt Romney & Ron Paul Score Points

Just a sampling...

Fed Up

So a couple of bloggers and a gambling site thought RP did well, in reality he is the "fifth candidate".

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So Paul raises all this money. DOMINATES in debates. Gets rousing applause everywhere he goes...yet none of this translates to any real support in the polls? Doesn't make sense to me.

because internet forums are not a good sample of society

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Attacking? I'm addressing your comment that the time allotment was fair.

Let me spell it out for you. You approve of the MSM America that doesn't allow equal time to all candidates.

Ron Paul has finished higher than Giuliani and was 4th ahead of Fred in total votes cast thus far before the second to last Fox News debate where they left him out, but kept Giuliani and Fred in.

MSNBC gave Paul a pittence of time which does not correlate to his 4th place overall finish in votes cast, let alone his second place finish in Nevada and 2nd, possibly 1st place finish in the LA caucus.

You think this is OK. I don't.

If Paul was black and was 4th in overall voting, and received this kind of treatment, there would be calls of racism or bias in favor of the white man and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson would be leading marches on Washinton D.C.

Fed Up

I never said the time allotment was fair. It wasn't. In fact:

Originally Posted by me

I agree, he should have gotten more time

It's obviously not fair. Fair would be if everyone got equal time. Any inferences that you made from that false premise are clearly wrong.

I did, however, say it was in Paul's best interest that he wasn't the center of attention or his newsletter fiasco would have been brought up and probably ended his presidential run. The more time people have the more they're criticized. And no offense to Paul or his supporters, but he sucks at defending this criticism.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

So a couple of bloggers and a gambling site thought RP did well, in reality he is the "fifth candidate".

The topic of the thread is "Florida Republican Debate Analysis" and I was giving all of the analysis I could find at the time from Google news.

What support do you have in saying he really is a "fifth candidate" when he has beaten Rudy Giuliani in every primary and caucus but one and finishing second in two.

A little bias perhaps?

I included in the analysis the local telivision station and an anti-Paul commenter. I thought it was a fair array of news.

Fed Up

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I never said the time allotment was fair. It wasn't. In fact:

It's obviously not fair. Fair would be if everyone got equal time. Any inferences that you made from that false premise are clearly wrong.

I did, however, say it was in Paul's best interest that he wasn't the center of attention or his newsletter fiasco would have been brought up and probably ended his presidential run. The more time people have the more they're criticized. And no offense to Paul or his supporters, but he sucks at defending this criticism.

Fair enough...

I don't think Ron Paul is worried about the newsletters and it seems the MSM isn't either.

Fed Up

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So Paul raises all this money. DOMINATES in debates. Gets rousing applause everywhere he goes...yet none of this translates to any real support in the polls? Doesn't make sense to me.

Polls haven't shown that he would get second in Nevada or beat Rudy in every state but NH right?

The "DOMINATES" description, of course, comes from his biased supporters...like me.

Fed Up

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

The topic of the thread is "Florida Republican Debate Analysis" and I was giving all of the analysis I could find at the time from Google news.

What support do you have in saying he really is a "fifth candidate" when he has beaten Rudy Giuliani in every primary and caucus but one and finishing second in two.

A little bias perhaps?

I included in the analysis the local telivision station and an anti-Paul commenter. I thought it was a fair array of news.

Fed Up

everyone knows that Giuliani is waiting until Florida to start his campaign. It doesn't look like it is going to work, but that was his strategy.

Ron Paul is finishing 2nd only when other candiates make no attempt in the state, like Nevada.

[kinggovernor]

First thoughts: First impressions Posted: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:29 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: First Thoughts, 2008
From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
BOCA RATON, FL -- Perhaps all of them saw how both Clinton and Obama killed each other in that CNN debate earlier this week and were afraid of turning off voters. Or maybe it was because it was being carried by many of NBC's local Florida affiliates, meaning that the candidates were meeting many voters for the first time. No matter the reason, last night’s debate here was the tamest GOP affair in weeks. This, despite the fact that half of this field could be out of contention after next Tuesday. Overall, the tame debate was good news for both Romney and McCain -- the two front-runners in Florida. Indeed, a new Mason-Dixon poll shows Romney leading McCain in the Sunshine State, 30%-26%, followed by Rudy (who has been campaigning here for the last few weeks) at 18% and Huckabee at 13%.

*** Romney’s good first impresssion: Both Romney and McCain got to sound and look presidential. Romney, in fact, may have had his best debate performance in a long time because he wasn't attacked. In every other recent debate, Romney has struggled when under attack. But he wasn't really hit hard last night, and that allowed Romney to control his image more so than in previous debates. Still, he didn’t look that strong answering the question about how much of his own money he will spend on his campaign, and Huckabee landed a body blow when he suggested that Romney’s five sons would have a whole lot more inheritance money if dad weren’t spending so much on his campaign.

*** McCain’s national message vs. Rudy’s local one: McCain, meanwhile, also got to look like a front-runner, but he tailored his message nationally, not so much locally. And while we sometimes got to see that McCain humor (when he talked about his mother, Sly Stallone, and his temper), he also seemed a bit angry in other spots. As for the man with the most pressure on him -- Giuliani -- he certainly made an attempt to appeal directly to Floridians. He did a good job showing them he's learned their issues, but did he look like a winner? He even admitted himself he was an underdog. Huckabee had some great lines, but he didn't seem to be a front-runner like in more recent debates. And then there's Paul… Unlike other gadflys, he doesn't raise a stink when he doesn't get the same treatment as the front-runners do; he just makes his points well. Overall, it was a very good night for Romney and McCain, because the front-runners didn't get attacked and they got to be presidential.

*** Let’s talk about race: Bill Clinton might say that the Clinton-Obama contest has nothing to do with race -- or, as he said Wednesday, that the race issue is coming from the Obama folks or that it’s something the media is stirring up -- but the Bob Johnson and Charlie Rangel comments on Obama’s teenage drug use (which they later apologized for), as well as the intense debate over Clinton’s remarks on MLK and LBJ have had an effect, according to the latest NBC/WSJ poll. In December, Clinton held a 40%-23% percent lead over Obama among whites, as well as support from a majority of African Americans. But now, Clinton's lead among whites has jumped, 53%-24%, while Obama now has a 63%-23% lead over Clinton among African Americans. "We have had a total shift in the African-American community," NBC/WSJ co-pollster Bill McInturff (R) says. That’s also true in South Carolina, where a new MSNBC/McClatchy/Mason-Dixon shows that Obama’s support among whites has declined 10 points in just one week. Ask yourself this question: After South Carolina -- where Obama has a 38%-30% lead over Clinton, per that MSNBC poll -- which candidate benefits the most from that racial split?

*** Mr. Bill: Speaking of Bill, once again he’s everywhere in the press. In fact, we see more clips of him of than we see of Hillary’s economic speech yesterday. And, of course, he and his wife played a starring role at last night’s GOP debate.

*** So long, Dennis: Kucinich holds a press conference in Cleveland at noon to announce the end of his presidential bid. One reason why he quit the trail? He's got a serious challenge for his House seat... Bob Dornan lost re-election in '96, the same year he ran for president. Local constituents don't always like being taken for granted. Will Kucinich meet Dornan's fate?

*** On the trail: Elsewhere… Clinton, in South Carolina, stumps in Columbia, Rock Hill, and Myrtle Beach before meeting up with her husband for a rally in Charleston; Edwards, also in the Palmetto State hits Greenville, Columbia, Orangeburg, and Charleston; Giuliani remains in Florida, campaigning in Miami and Sarasota; Huckabee makes five stops in the Sunshine State; McCain holds four events across Florida; Obama spends his final day of campaigning in South Carolina with stops in Charleston, Columbia, Clemson, and Florence before attending an evening rally with his wife in Columbia; and Romney has four events in Florida
First thoughts: First impressions Posted: Friday, January 25, 2008 9:29 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: First Thoughts, 2008
From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
BOCA RATON, FL -- Perhaps all of them saw how both Clinton and Obama killed each other in that CNN debate earlier this week and were afraid of turning off voters. Or maybe it was because it was being carried by many of NBC's local Florida affiliates, meaning that the candidates were meeting many voters for the first time. No matter the reason, last night’s debate here was the tamest GOP affair in weeks. This, despite the fact that half of this field could be out of contention after next Tuesday. Overall, the tame debate was good news for both Romney and McCain -- the two front-runners in Florida. Indeed, a new Mason-Dixon poll shows Romney leading McCain in the Sunshine State, 30%-26%, followed by Rudy (who has been campaigning here for the last few weeks) at 18% and Huckabee at 13%.

*** Romney’s good first impresssion: Both Romney and McCain got to sound and look presidential. Romney, in fact, may have had his best debate performance in a long time because he wasn't attacked. In every other recent debate, Romney has struggled when under attack. But he wasn't really hit hard last night, and that allowed Romney to control his image more so than in previous debates. Still, he didn’t look that strong answering the question about how much of his own money he will spend on his campaign, and Huckabee landed a body blow when he suggested that Romney’s five sons would have a whole lot more inheritance money if dad weren’t spending so much on his campaign.

*** McCain’s national message vs. Rudy’s local one: McCain, meanwhile, also got to look like a front-runner, but he tailored his message nationally, not so much locally. And while we sometimes got to see that McCain humor (when he talked about his mother, Sly Stallone, and his temper), he also seemed a bit angry in other spots. As for the man with the most pressure on him -- Giuliani -- he certainly made an attempt to appeal directly to Floridians. He did a good job showing them he's learned their issues, but did he look like a winner? He even admitted himself he was an underdog. Huckabee had some great lines, but he didn't seem to be a front-runner like in more recent debates. And then there's Paul… Unlike other gadflys, he doesn't raise a stink when he doesn't get the same treatment as the front-runners do; he just makes his points well. Overall, it was a very good night for Romney and McCain, because the front-runners didn't get attacked and they got to be presidential.

*** Let’s talk about race: Bill Clinton might say that the Clinton-Obama contest has nothing to do with race -- or, as he said Wednesday, that the race issue is coming from the Obama folks or that it’s something the media is stirring up -- but the Bob Johnson and Charlie Rangel comments on Obama’s teenage drug use (which they later apologized for), as well as the intense debate over Clinton’s remarks on MLK and LBJ have had an effect, according to the latest NBC/WSJ poll. In December, Clinton held a 40%-23% percent lead over Obama among whites, as well as support from a majority of African Americans. But now, Clinton's lead among whites has jumped, 53%-24%, while Obama now has a 63%-23% lead over Clinton among African Americans. "We have had a total shift in the African-American community," NBC/WSJ co-pollster Bill McInturff (R) says. That’s also true in South Carolina, where a new MSNBC/McClatchy/Mason-Dixon shows that Obama’s support among whites has declined 10 points in just one week. Ask yourself this question: After South Carolina -- where Obama has a 38%-30% lead over Clinton, per that MSNBC poll -- which candidate benefits the most from that racial split?

*** Mr. Bill: Speaking of Bill, once again he’s everywhere in the press. In fact, we see more clips of him of than we see of Hillary’s economic speech yesterday. And, of course, he and his wife played a starring role at last night’s GOP debate.

*** So long, Dennis: Kucinich holds a press conference in Cleveland at noon to announce the end of his presidential bid. One reason why he quit the trail? He's got a serious challenge for his House seat... Bob Dornan lost re-election in '96, the same year he ran for president. Local constituents don't always like being taken for granted. Will Kucinich meet Dornan's fate?

*** On the trail: Elsewhere… Clinton, in South Carolina, stumps in Columbia, Rock Hill, and Myrtle Beach before meeting up with her husband for a rally in Charleston; Edwards, also in the Palmetto State hits Greenville, Columbia, Orangeburg, and Charleston; Giuliani remains in Florida, campaigning in Miami and Sarasota; Huckabee makes five stops in the Sunshine State; McCain holds four events across Florida; Obama spends his final day of campaigning in South Carolina with stops in Charleston, Columbia, Clemson, and Florence before attending an evening rally with his wife in Columbia; and Romney has four events in Florida
First thoughts: First impressions - First Read - msnbc.com

Republicans Focus On Economy And Clinton In Cordial Debate
News stories about the Thursday night GOP debate in Florida commented on its economic focus, the candidates' criticism of Sen. Hillary Clinton, and the lack of attacks among the Republican hopefuls. USA Today reports that with the Florida primary approaching on Tuesday, the GOP candidates "jousted Thursday over who has the best background to deal with the nation's economic slump. John McCain stressed his congressional efforts to cut 'pork barrel spending,' Mitt Romney his business background and Rudy Giuliani his tenure as mayor of New York." The Orlando Sentinel reports that the Republicans "battled Thursday night over the sluggish economy and tax cuts." Romney and McCain each portrayed "himself as ready to lead while keeping a distance from President Bush. Both men said the $150 billion economic stimulus package...fell short by focusing chiefly on tax rebates for middle-class Americans."

In a front-page story, the Washington Post reports, "The mostly civil forum came at a critical moment in the muddled GOP competition, and the five remaining candidates appeared eager to avoid some of the sharper differences that have sparked tough exchanges. Instead, they played it safe and were often cordial to one another five days before Florida's primary election, which could end one or more candidacies." The New York Times similarly characterizes the debate as "some decidedly gentle sparring" in which the Republicans "all tried to cast themselves as able fiscal stewards who could steer the nation's increasingly precarious economy back to health." The Chicago Tribune reports that the debaters showed "extraordinary civility," indicating "how concerned all of these Republicans are about alienating any potential voters here."

The AP reports that the GOP candidates focused, not on each other, but on Sen. Hillary Clinton, whom they portrayed "as weak on Iraq and certain to raise taxes." The Washington Times says the "four top candidates set aside their differences as they pounded" Clinton.

USNews.com: Political Bulletin: Friday, January 25, 2008

some other analysis

[lew]

I felt bad for Mitt at the end of the debate.


With the question of his Mormonism and his spending his own money. It's his religion and his money. Let's talk about issues and not about private matters, mkay?

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by lew

I felt bad for Mitt at the end of the debate.


With the question of his Mormonism and his spending his own money. It's his religion and his money. Let's talk about issues and not about private matters, mkay?

that was the only time the debate bordered on uncivil. Its almost like Billary is the incumbent they way they were attacking her.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Ron Paul is finishing 2nd only when other candiates make no attempt in the state, like Nevada.

and Louisiana...

but I do agree that this type of conversation is moot until after Super Tuesday.

Fed Up

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

and Louisiana...

but I do agree that this type of conversation is moot until after Super Tuesday.

Fed Up

agreed. I do agree that Ron Paul and his supporters have a place in the republican party, but I do believe that they will ever build a majority.

And it all goes back to 1952.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

And it all goes back to 1952.

Are you speaking of "mind control?"

Fed Up

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Are you speaking of "mind control?"

Fed Up

no I am speaking of when the Republican party selected Eisenhower, who was as nonpolitical as a person could be, over Robert Taft, who was the "real conservative"

RP considers Robert Taft a hero.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no I am speaking of when the Republican party selected Eisenhower, who was as nonpolitical as a person could be, over Robert Taft, who was the "real conservative"

RP considers Robert Taft a hero.

gotcha...yes...

[lew]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

no I am speaking of when the Republican party selected Eisenhower, who was as nonpolitical as a person could be, over Robert Taft, who was the "real conservative"

RP considers Robert Taft a hero.

Still, Eisenhower wasn't too bad.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by lew

Still, Eisenhower wasn't too bad.

I know this is OT, but I would have thought that you guys (libertarians) would hate Eisenhower what with the highway act and all.