Democrats are turning on the Clintons

[kinggovernor]

so on a different side, maybe Bill didn't mean it as insult. I think Jesse Jackson's 1988 DNC speech is the best I have ever heard, so maybe he was talking about Obama's oratory skills.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Yes, because if he attacks people he dislikes based solely on their race you'd be making my point for me. If he doesn't you're using a straw man argument to defend your own issues. Either way it's pointless to discuss.


I never said "issues" or any of this other crap. You're the one bringing up all this irrelevant BS to justify racism against politicians you disagree with. Stay on target please.

Using certain words doesn't make you a racist. It's how you use them and the intent behind them that matters. Using racial epithets against people you disagree with and who you wish to harm or bring down is racist. End of story. Just because someone else may have used the word doesn't change that. The defense being used here is no different than racists have always used to defend their racism...

To be clear, I don't think you're racist. I just think some people take their political views too far and their arguments turn irrationally racist rather than political. There is absolutely no rational justification for engaging in such behavior, regardless of what you may have heard Bill Cosby say.

It's not soley based on their race...it's their race and message

Like I said, advocating an agenda that will hurt a community, that community is entitled to say so, and objective people I think should be allowed to say "they have a point"

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

It's possible to racial epithets such as nigger, uncle tom, etc without condoning or promoting racism. See I just did it.

But an example of using it in a derogatory way would be to smear a person or candidate such as what we saw with Michael Steele. With all the race baiting and racial connections being brought about in this campaign I see it as only a matter of time before Obama is treated like Steele was treated.

We've seen elections degrade to that level recently and we've even seen members of our forum reduce themselves to such nonsense.

comparing the nword to uncle tom is so

Michael Steele was taken on by the Maryland African American community and YOU thought you knew better than them, in the end, they rejected him by 75% vote for a guy they didn't even like...all because they so detested Steele, they saw him as an Uncle Tom scam artist and they have their right to that opinion, and I can certainly look at several things and go "they aren't being irrational racial-politics fanatics"

Saying Obama is being treated like Steele is the BIGGEST FAIRY TALE I EVER HEARD

People made a very serious charge against Steele, and said in the wrong way by the wrong people, would sound incredibly racist

The Obama argument is that he's not ready, and he's attracting either very small general election groups (african americans) or very unstable groups (young voters)

From what I said, you could infer he was white, or any race/color...there is nothing RACIST about pointing to voting results and saying LOOK, OBAMA, YOU ARE NOT GETTING THE HISPANIC VOTE, PLEASE COME BACK WHEN YOU CAN BECAUSE IN ANY UNITY COALTION THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE CORNERSTONE

But, in my opinion, outrageously, you can only whisper about it, because to talk about it indepth means you must be hinting at black-brown relations and thats just evil and omg

However, if this were John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, the only two left standing, they would be debating the hispanic vote EVERY DAY and it would be the main topic on every sunday show...however Obama is black so when the Clintons even hint at it, they are racists

It's like that with everything

Here is a simple exercise to tell if the Clintons are being racists or good hardball politicians

Take everything they have said against Obama, word for word, and just change "Obama" to "Edwards", if you find in this scenario, none of it racist or playing on people's racial tensions, then it's not bad

I've done that, and Hillary comes clean in that scenario

what you are asking for is Obama to get a special standard because he is black, that he has to be treated with kid gloves because he is black...ive never seen such a strong case from you for such a liberal cause

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I think the reason Democrats and even friends of the Clintons are so fed up with them over issues like this is because they recognize how calculating the Clintons are. They know Bill didn't drop the Jesse Jackson name for no reason. You can even see the way he backs up and says it in almost a laughing/mocking manner. He's injecting Jesse Jackson's name as a means of bringing up an unpopular black person to their advantage. It's sleazy to say the least, and it's degrading to the Democratic party.

The question Clinton was responding to was an attack on the Billary campaign. It was something like, "What does it say about Hillary Clinton when it takes the two of you to beat him?" His response was inject Jesse Jackson's name and saying Obama is running a good campaign like Jesse. If you've followed Bill's rhetoric about Obama, he isn't complimenting him.

The Jackson thing is:
1) a simple fact, given with no spin
2) possibly taken out of context...notice how the clip starts with "that's bait TOO" even though it's the first question, they are trying to get the video on youtube, but word is that the first question was a race-baiting question, and Clinton was just answering that it's not strange for a black candidate to win, but the media cut that part out...Clinton never responded because he's on over-drive and can't remember every conversation, and they have already been saying they are being taken out of context so stressing that wouldn't gain them anything and possibly cost them something to get into a long debate over probably the worst media spin of the SC race


Don't you notice you guys can go on conservative blogs and read what you're saying word for word? This whole media spin is being driven by "liberal" media elements who do not want to deal with Hillary for 8 years because she is notoriously rough with the media, and the conservative media at foxnoise who just hate her

I've said before, as soon as Obama wins, I can guarantee you two things:
1) No matter what you said, you will never pull the lever for him
2) Millions of other Americans are going to go the exact same way...they like Obama because they think he can take down Hillary, once that stops, his very fragile coalition (that's still losing, mind you) will collapse and he'll lose Kerry style, possibly worse (PA/WI also going red)

[JaJae]

Kristen Powers is a long time vocal supporter of Hillary Clinton:
OVER THE LINE

In response to a reporter's question about the Clintons' double-teaming Barack Obama, the former president answered with this non sequitur: "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina in '84 and '88. Jackson ran a good campaign. And Obama ran a good campaign here."

Translation: Obama's (just) the black candidate.

Talk about divisive and dishonest.

In South Carolina, Obama won 24 percent of the white vote. Jackson's 1988 white support in South Carolina was 5 to 10 percent.

...

Not long ago, Obama and Hillary were splitting the black vote. It was always assumed that if Obama demonstrated an ability to win, those votes would start moving his way. Winning lily-white Iowa sent a strong message about his viability, and by Nevada, the first state with a significant African-American vote, Obama won more than 80 percent of the black vote. (He also pulled in 34 percent of the white vote, more than three times that of Edwards.)

Bill Clinton's attempt to cast Obama as a niche candidate is a quick rewriting of recent history in an attempt to scare white voters in upcoming primaries.

...

What now remains to be seen is how pervasive the argument that Obama is the "black candidate" becomes. Clinton campaign strategists denied to the Associated Press that their campaign had anything to do with branding Obama as such - but did say that if the label sticks, they believe it could hurt him.

Meanwhile, the chatter among many Democrats is that Bill Clinton is once again putting his own desires ahead of the interests of the Democratic Party.

Attacking Obama on substantive issues is fair game. Indeed, most of the criticism of Bill Clinton up until now has been overblown and media driven. But he may have crossed a line in South Carolina.

If the past is an indicator, Bill Clinton will recover from the chaos he's created.

Let's hope the same is true of the Democratic Party.

Polarizing to say the least...

[JaJae]

And more..

YouTube Video

It makes you wonder when she'll stop lying and start running a clean campaign.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by JaJae

And more..

YouTube Video

It makes you wonder when she'll stop lying and start running a clean campaign.

it would be better if we could see that piece of direct mail

[JaJae]

To be fair.. just released by drudge:

YouTube Video

Hell just froze over.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by JaJae

To be fair.. just released by drudge:

YouTube Video

Hell just froze over.

she is a real life troll and I am glad she won't be supporting McCain

[Thorgrim]

and people are worried about liberals flocking to Hillary

Truth be told, by Nov 2008...both sides will rally, unless Dobson gets a 3rd party (Coulterites won't vote for Paul)

Green/Nader won't work because people remember 2000...and a lot of the arguments i hear in 2008 i heard in 2004, and Nader's vote was basically nill

[Donkey®]

I am not worried about a unified Democratic party come general election time.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by JaJae

To be fair.. just released by drudge:

YouTube Video

Hell just froze over.

I'm not sure if that clip makes me like McCain or hate Hilary.

[Thorgrim]

Hillary being elected...over McCain...will make the right wings head explode

Not only did they completely sell their soul for electability, but they LOST to the person THEY MOST HATE IN THE WORLD

However, there are more than enough moderate Republicans who would work with a Hillary administration

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Kristen Powers is a long time vocal supporter of Hillary Clinton:
OVER THE LINE

Polarizing to say the least...

The least!



I do want to say this about Obama. He made a mistake in the debate where he made it clear the Clinton "Tag Team" got to him. It is his advantage to be nice and polite at all times and let the Clinton's throw the rocks.

[JaJae]

And now Tammy Bruce

YouTube Video

I think it's kinda funny all the right-wing nut jobs would support Hillary over McCain.

[Thorgrim]

I don't think you know McCain as well as you think you do...

He was talking to Daschle about switching over to the Dems in 01 if he got the right chairmanship

[JaJae]

Some more:

Robert Reich, former Labor Secretary in the Bill Clinton administration:
Bill Clinton’s ill-tempered and ill-founded attacks on Barack Obama are doing no credit to the former President, his legacy, or his wife’s campaign. Nor are they helping the Democratic party.
...
Now, sadly, we’re witnessing a smear campaign against Obama that employs some of the worst aspects of the old politics.
Robert Reich's Blog: Bill Clinton's Old Politics

Ed Schultz on Hardball:
[Bill Clinton] lied 10 years ago about Monica Lewinsky and he's lying about a very viable candidate and somebody who could really bring change in this country. He is embarrassing poor Democrats.

Tom Daschle criticized:
President Clinton's inaccurate descriptions of the differences between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton on the war, about his inaccurate portrayal of Barack's comments ... he made about Republicans.

Sen. Claire McCaskill:
[Clinton] shaded things and tried to manipulate the facts in a way that is patently unfair.

Sen. John Kerry said Obama's record was being "swift boated"
The fight is just heating up. We won't let them steal this election with lies and distortions.

Nicholas von Hoffman wrote in Nation magazine:
In the last couple of days Barack Obama has found out what Paula Jones must have felt like after being worked over by the Clinton organization. Ms. Clinton goes slap, slap, slap across his face as husband Bill lets the Illinois Senator have it below the belt.
...
He[Obama] was taking on an experienced political thug[Hillary Clinton].
Bill and Hill's Dangerous Game

[Thorgrim]

your quotes aren't linked, and are basically all people who are in the Obama camp

your one article is from ofcourse an obama supporter, who wrote this prior to the last debate

Since SC everyone has agreed the campaign has been dramatically different than the media portrayed it (which i seriously doubt was accurate at all)

Either way, Democrats are not complaining about how Hillary conducted herself after SC/FL, especially since the debates

Old news from old whiners in the Obama camp...

[JaJae]

Old news huh? You don't think Bill's escapades and all these politicians and pundits speaking out against the Clintons these past couple weeks is going to influence voters this week? Come on now. Old news...

[Thorgrim]

if Clinton gets 900-950 delegates tommorow, you're wrong

if she gets less, after talking to a lot more DEMOCRATIC obama supporters, I'm confident when they tell me it's not a vote against Hillary, infact they'd vote for her if it was anyone else except Obama

Which is why SC and FL exit polls showed some 80% of the record-breaking voting group would be satisfied with Hillary

It's simply people got swept up in Obama being the black JFK, which is fine with me if he uses it to win in november

universal healthcare can fail, but my socioeconomic status is such that I never have to worry about such things

Infact, due to McCain admitting that Alito was too conservative for him...looks like Nov 2008 will not involve me pounding my head against the wall, regardless of who wins