I have the solution to our education problem, but it'll cost a shitload - Page 2

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

How is that a reward if you don't plan on going to college?

and how many don't plan on going to college? less than 1%? you'd base a whole educational system on that few people?

Ardentfrost · 09-08-2006, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

and how many don't plan on going to college? less than 1%? you'd base a whole educational system on that few people?

More than that, by far. And I think too many people go to college as it is.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

And I think too many people go to college as it is.

why's that.

Scrum · 09-08-2006, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

More than that, by far. And I think too many people go to college as it is.

A bunch of people end up with degrees and educations they can't use, but they get the debt for it.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

A bunch of people end up with degrees and educations they can't use, but they get the debt for it.

so you're telling me it's best that so many people DON'T go to college so they can fill in the 'lesser' jobs and not have the debt that comes with college?! do i really hear you saying it's better to keep more people uneducated?!

Scrum · 09-08-2006, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

so you're telling me it's best that so many people DON'T go to college so they can fill in the 'lesser' jobs and not have the debt that comes with college?! do i really hear you saying it's better to keep more people uneducated?!

I would love to see your plan for the country where everyone has a PHD and we have doctors cleaning toilets trying to pay off their loans.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I would love to see your plan for the country where everyone has a PHD and we have doctors cleaning toilets trying to pay off their loans.

it wouldn't happen, so i don't worry about it

7960 · 09-08-2006, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Can you imagine how hard kids would study if they got paid for good grades?
Can you imagine how limitless the improvement would be when you also combine that with teacher based bonuses???

Can you imagine the lawsuits coming from someone getting a C+ when he missed a grade by one point?
Can you imagine how much *MORE* this would cost beyond even the money to teachers/students?

More than once I had parents come to me then go to the principal then superintendent then the school board because I "ruined his (kid's) chances at going to (some school) because he got a 79 as a final grade when an 80 would have *guaranteed* he got in!"

Bring money into the picture and a few things will happen:

1. teachers will take bribes for grades
2. students will learn less
3. teachers will teach less diverse material
4. students will be dumber

Scrum · 09-08-2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

it wouldn't happen, so i don't worry about it

SO then you agree that we need uneducated people in this country?

7960 · 09-08-2006, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

so you're telling me it's best that so many people DON'T go to college so they can fill in the 'lesser' jobs and not have the debt that comes with college?! do i really hear you saying it's better to keep more people uneducated?!

Not "keep them uneducated" but also not artificially inflating their education level.

SYNDROME

Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super...no one will be.
[evil laughter]

If everyone has a PhD they'll be worthless. Also, do you really think everyone has the CAPACITY to have a PhD? Think about your friends...which is the dumb one? He may be a friend you love and would fight for, but come on, he's not too bright. Would any amount of studying make him as smart as your smart friend?

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

SO then you agree that we need uneducated people in this country?

of course, but we shouldn't encourage it, as implied in previous posts.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Also, do you really think everyone has the CAPACITY to have a PhD?

of course not, but everyone (well, most) has the capacity to go to college, and they should. we in no way should keep them from going, nor should we suggest they shouldn't. if they want to, let them.

but you're right, it used to be that if you wanted to get a top job, you needed to go college. then it changed to you needed to go to grad school. now it's grad school and a fellowship. so i understand what you're suggesting, but to say 'not so many need to go to college' is a very bad way of thinking.

Scrum · 09-08-2006, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

of course not, but everyone (well, most) has the capacity to go to college, and they should. we in no way should keep them from going, nor should we suggest they shouldn't. if they want to, let them.

but you're right, it used to be that if you wanted to get a top job, you needed to go college. then it changed to you needed to go to grad school. now it's grad school and a fellowship. so i understand what you're suggesting, but to say 'not so many need to go to college' is a very bad way of thinking.

It's the same thing really.

And also those people who go to school and can't find jobs in their field, find other jobs and never use that degree although they are paying it off over a number of years. That's not good.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

And also those people who go to school and can't find jobs in their field, find other jobs and never use that degree although they are paying it off over a number of years. That's not good.

that's hardly a factor. most people never use the degree they got anyway...they often decide they don't like what they studied. it's always been like that.

7960 · 09-08-2006, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

of course not, but everyone (well, most) has the capacity to go to college, and they should. we in no way should keep them from going, nor should we suggest they shouldn't. if they want to, let them.

but you're right, it used to be that if you wanted to get a top job, you needed to go college. then it changed to you needed to go to grad school. now it's grad school and a fellowship. so i understand what you're suggesting, but to say 'not so many need to go to college' is a very bad way of thinking.

Where did I say "not so many need to go to college"? I said "not artificially inflating their education level."

Hate to say it but it's true...everyone is not cut out for college. Some aren't smart enough, some aren't patient enough.........I agree it's sad that some people don't go because they think they can't afford it (even though they can, but that's another topic for another thread) but no matter what anyone says, everyone is not cut out for college.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

Where did I say "not so many need to go to college"? I said "not artificially inflating their education level."

sorry, it wasn't you

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

And I think too many people go to college as it is.

Hate to say it but it's true...everyone is not cut out for college. Some aren't smart enough, some aren't patient enough.........I agree it's sad that some people don't go because they think they can't afford it (even though they can, but that's another topic for another thread) but no matter what anyone says, everyone is not cut out for college.

that's the beauty of the free market...those not cut out for it get weeded out.

Ardentfrost · 09-08-2006, 12:08 PM

Glad Scrum saw the point of what I was saying :hi5:

Promoting college, to me, is telling kids that if they want to be an engineer or scientist or lawyer or doctor, they NEED to go to college. But if they plan on being a mechanic, look at vocational school.

What we DO, however, is tell kids they won't amount to a hill of beans without college. Then you get a lot going for 4-6 years getting a degree they cannot use. They find a major they're sorta interested in, but get their asses kicked in the real world by people who REALLY want to do stuff related to that major. That means they end up being a well educated coffee pourer.

We don't teach our kids about making good economic decisions when it comes to jobs, and we also don't let them know what jobs are projected to be winners within the 5-6 years after they graduate High School. I did a lot of research when I graduated high school to find out that Computer Engineers were desired in the late 90's and early 2000's. I didn't end up sticking with that major, but my initial decision was based on the job market.

Currently there's a LOT of job opportunity for Civil Engineers and Computer Science majors... had that been projected 4-5 years ago, right now that need wouldn't be so great (although, the need for civil engineers has been steadily high for 8 years).

But at the same time, we dont' need someone working at a gas station who majored in American History or a Starbucks manager who majored in Public Policy or a car salesman who majored in International Affairs... Those people have a lot of debt for no bonus to their job.

ballz2wallz · 09-08-2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Promoting college, to me, is telling kids that if they want to be an engineer or scientist or lawyer or doctor, they NEED to go to college. But if they plan on being a mechanic, look at vocational school.

i agree with that, except for one thing; how many kids do you actualy know that grow up wanting to be in a trade? how many say 'when i grow up, i want to be a painter' or 'when i grow up, i want to be a mechanic'

every kid has dreams of being something big, something that 'makes a lot of money' or whatever you might think of. most often, those things that kids dream of being, even in high school, are things needing a college degree. too often, those that get stuck in a trade are those that didn't go to school and had no other option.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

and how many don't plan on going to college? less than 1%? you'd base a whole educational system on that few people?

USATODAY.com - Reality weighs down dreams of college

Only about one in 17 young people from the nation's poorest families, those earning less than $35,377 a year, can expect to earn a bachelor's degree by age 24. For those from the nation's wealthiest families, those who earn about $85,000 or higher, it's better than one in two.

USIA - Portrait of the USA, Ch. 6

The percentage of African Americans who go on to college, however, is still lower than the general population. In 1992, 47.9 percent of African-American high school graduates were enrolled in college, compared with 61.7 percent of all high school graduates.

USATODAY.com - Report: Greater percentage of Ameri