I have the solution to our education problem, but it'll cost a shitload

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-07-2006, 09:19 PM

When teachers get the same money regardless of how their students do, the teachers tend to be shitty, right? Teachers perform better when you give them performance based bonuses, right? Great start...but half of the equation is missing...

A teacher can be as good and montivated as possible, but if the kids won't work, what are you going to do? And why won't the kids work? Well, because they're lazy, they don't think it's cool, whatever...when you boil it down, the kids don't work because they have no MOTIVATION...

So, what if instead of giving just teachers performance based bonuses, we also gave kids performance based bonuses? Can you imagine how hard kids would study if they got paid for good grades? Can you imagine how limitless the improvement would be when you also combine that with teacher based bonuses???

Of course, this would cost a shitload of money, but then again, we're the richest country in the world. Think of it...little ghetto kids would no longer have anything to complain about...they could get their bling bling and A+'s at the same time! Kids and teachers would no longer be adversaries...they'd be partners who both want each others help to make money! The misbehaving and disruptive kid would no longer be cool...he'd be treated like a jackass that's hurting the other kids earnings!

God, I'm a fucking genius.

ballz2wallz · 09-07-2006, 09:26 PM

kids do get performance based bonuses. they're known as grades.

Ardentfrost · 09-07-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

kids do get performance based bonuses. they're known as grades.

I was going to expand that a little and say good grades that allow better upper education which allows better jobs which pay more money

curlyque221 · 09-07-2006, 11:24 PM

Why would that automatically make kids and teachers friends, and not adversaries? It would still be up to the teachers to grade the kids, making them eligible for said bonuses.

Wouldn't that also start a riot between the teachers? Every teacher would be fighting to have more students so they can get the bigger bonuses.

Also, if teachers were awarded bonuses upon how well their pupils were doing, isn't it possible that the standard of the curriculum would drop, so that there was a higher success rate, leading to more bonuses?? People would just end up being stupider. They would have some cash, sure, but where would they be after that?

Scrum · 09-07-2006, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I was going to expand that a little and say good grades that allow better upper education which allows better jobs which pay more money

Although silly, I would think this type of system would be a libertarians wet dream (minus the cost). It's applying the free market directly into the education system.

Ardentfrost · 09-07-2006, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Although silly, I would think this type of system would be a libertarians wet dream (minus the cost). It's applying the free market directly into the education system.

the op? oh, hell no, lol

kinggovernor · 09-07-2006, 11:33 PM

I used to get all kinda of free shit at places for good grades

lew · 09-08-2006, 12:49 AM

Kids already get free college if they get good grades in school.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

kids do get performance based bonuses. they're known as grades.

How is that a reward if you don't plan on going to college?

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I was going to expand that a little and say good grades that allow better upper education which allows better jobs which pay more money

Except that not all kids want higher education, or some think they don't want it, but end up going back later...but that's besides the point. The point is that these people are kids, and kids don't have foresight to know what's good for them...that's part of why school is compulsory, right? If you left it up to kids, they'd not attend because they can't understand the effect of not going...well, money is a motivator of people any age, even those who don't understand how important college is.

thomez · 09-08-2006, 01:19 AM

How about we reinforce the fact that if they don't get their shit straight they'll be unhappy, poor, homeless, and hungry.

Oh wait, we don't let that happen anymore so there is no reason to be scared of the consequences of acting like a moron throughout life. I forgot about our welfare state for a second.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 01:20 AM

Originally Posted by curlyque221

Why would that automatically make kids and teachers friends, and not adversaries? It would still be up to the teachers to grade the kids, making them eligible for said bonuses.

It wouldn't necessarily make them friends, but it would align their interests, instead of now, especially in bad neighborhoods, where the kids don't want to be there and the teachers act as baby sitters and the kids treat them as prison guards. In the worst neighborhoods, the kids would want the money the most, which means they'd behave most in school and try hardest.

Originally Posted by curlyque221

Wouldn't that also start a riot between the teachers? Every teacher would be fighting to have more students so they can get the bigger bonuses.

Not necessarily...if the administrators assign the students randomly, then every teacher will get a random sample of students and none would have an unfair advantage over the other, e.g., no one teacher would get all the smart kids. I'm sure there's a way to work it out equitably.

Originally Posted by curlyque221

Also, if teachers were awarded bonuses upon how well their pupils were doing, isn't it possible that the standard of the curriculum would drop, so that there was a higher success rate, leading to more bonuses?? People would just end up being stupider. They would have some cash, sure, but where would they be after that?

I was envisioning standardized tests as the measure of performance, so that wouldn't be an issue.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 01:24 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

How about we reinforce the fact that if they don't get their shit straight they'll be unhappy, poor, homeless, and hungry.

Oh wait, we don't let that happen anymore so there is no reason to be scared of the consequences of acting like a moron throughout life. I forgot about our welfare state for a second.

Yeah, let me tell you...I never worry for a second about finding work, getting an education or having enough money for food, rent, and medical care...I know that no matter what, the government will help me.

Thorgrim · 09-08-2006, 01:28 AM

Yeah I know if I fuckup at 20, I can live off food stamps for maybe 2 years, 5 if I really stretched it under ridiculous circumstances, and then from 25-65, 40 years, I'd have no help, but someone thomez thinks I'd be living the easy life with no welfare

Have you been to a big city? Do you see the guys sleeping on the pavements, covered in filth, wearing garbage bags as clothing during the rain? huge beards full of old food, no friends, decaying teeth...you really think these people are happy? The only reason they are even alive is because of soup kitchens, not welfare

I don't know where some of you get your ideas for how the "real world" works, but it sounds like you just listened to grandpa conservative and uncle libertarian and made your worldview accordingly

thomez · 09-08-2006, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

Yeah, let me tell you...I never worry for a second about finding work, getting an education or having enough money for food, rent, and medical care...I know that no matter what, the government will help me.

If you grew up with worthless parents who had somewhere to live and fed you every day, you wouldn't worry about it much. You see that they get by and you figure that you will too. Half of my town is Section 8 housing, I have lived around this mindset my entire life.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

If you grew up with worthless parents who had somewhere to live and fed you every day, you wouldn't worry about it much. You see that they get by and you figure that you will too. Half of my town is Section 8 housing, I have lived around this mindset my entire life.

So, I'm curious about this welfare state you claim we live in, that's so generous people have no motivation to do well in school...are you saying I wasted all my time in school because I could be living the good life on government checks?

thomez · 09-08-2006, 02:07 AM

I just went for a run at the school and drove by the projects (Section 8 housing, the whole area). I saw several kids I went to school with living there (cars parked outside) and I saw one such winner walking home with a 24 pack of Miller Light. Fuck that bullshit. We not only accept this shit, we GROW it like a prized plant (weed in this area). Anyone on LL is welcome to visit, I'll show you the whole cycle right here in my shitty little town. Loser parents with loser kids living a few doors down in the same projects, all of which have or will have 4+ children and drink more beer than water.

I used to be all hunky dory for these programs that tugged at my little heartstrings until I saw and understood first hand how they breed irresponsibility.

thomez · 09-08-2006, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

So, I'm curious about this welfare state you claim we live in, that's so generous people have no motivation to do well in school...are you saying I wasted all my time in school because I could be living the good life on government checks?

If you know how to use the system you will have free or ridiculously cheap housing, food, and healthcare.

You won't be Bill Gates, but you'll have a lot more free time.

SpicyMcVoodoo · 09-08-2006, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

If you know how to use the system you will have free or ridiculously cheap housing, food, and healthcare.

You won't be Bill Gates, but you'll have a lot more free time.

I dunno...section 8 housing? I'd probably get killed...and I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with what food stamps buy. I really do think you'd have to be some sort of a hippie with absolutely not a shred of materialism in you to voluntarily go that route if you have other options...and that's assuming a young, able-bodied male could even get those benefits, which I don't believe.

thomez · 09-08-2006, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by SpicyMcVoodoo

I dunno...section 8 housing? I'd probably get killed...and I'm not sure I'd be satisfied with what food stamps buy. I really do think you'd have to be some sort of a hippie with absolutely not a shred of materialism in you to voluntarily go that route if you have other options...and that's assuming a young, able-bodied male could even get those benefits, which I don't believe.

You just have to knock a bitch up and wam! you'll have a cheap place, WIC bennies, and food stamps. You can still work for 15 bucks an hour and buy a new car to park outside, and get some dubs, which is all that really matters when you live in the projects, since everyone has the same place to "stay". Well that and having the latest Jordans and FUBU jeans, but I'm sure you already knew that.

Oh and don't worry about getting killed, you just need to have the right friends and everyone will "know betta" than to fuck with you. And don't worry bout your dubs or your big screen, cause in the projects, someone is up sitting on the porch 24 hours a day, so somebody knows who fucked with your shit.