Your weekly liberal assesment of the economy

[Thorgrim]

because everyone owns a computer

and yes, cable TV existed in the early 90s

I would know, i had it

I was watching CNN cover Desert Storm in 1991, less than 2 years later I was watching Beavis and Butthead on MTV...and we lived in the middle of nowhere in PA

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

because everyone owns a computer

and yes, cable TV existed in the early 90s

I would know, i had it

It's an example; it's true for most things that involve ANY technology (and a lot of foodstuffs too, thanks to advances in shipping/preserving).

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Publius

I have to agree with 6Speed here... And you can look at the computer industry to understand his example.

In 1990 DOS was all the rage still and you were paying out the ass, upwards of $1,000 for a 286 with less than a gig of storage space and we were still measuring RAM in KB. Today you can get a Windows XP machine with a 3 GHz processor with a 100 GB hard drive and a gig of RAM for about the same, maybe a little less. The price of "cutting edge" remains about the same, but the quality of "cutting edge" has increased exponentially. It's hard to capture that in a static graph of prices.

But you are also looking at supply and demand here. It's not just a drop in the price of goods. Computers have been the hot thing for the past 10 or so years and companies have made billions from them. Of course everyone and their mother is going to want to start making them so they can get in on the action and then the price goes down.

What about something that's not a fad type thing and is more stable like the price of gold? That has gone up since the 70's.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Even the price of Corvettes have been pretty much the same...

This is completely wrong.

In 1985, the base price for a Corvette was $24,891. In 2005 it was $44,245. But look at how much more CAR you get for that almost double base price.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

It's an example; it's true for most things that involve ANY technology (and a lot of foodstuffs too, thanks to advances in shipping/preserving).

Let's look at the basics:

Which is cheaper,
clothes from outlet stores in the 90s or today?
Milk/Lunchmeat/Bread?
Houses?
Phone Service?

It's either the prices have gone up, stayed about the same, etc

While on my end, incomes haven't gone up for the middle/lower class

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Publius

This is completely wrong.

In 1985, the base price for a Corvette was $24,891. In 2005 it was $44,245. But look at how much more CAR you get for that almost double base price.

Yeah, but that's the inflated price

Originally Posted by Inflation Calculator

What cost $24891 in 1985 would cost $44173.10 in 2005.

Or were you talking in real dollars?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Yeah, but that's the inflated price

Use the inflation calculator for me and tell me how much something that was $3.35 in 1985 (minimum wage then) would cost now.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Or were you talking in real dollars?

No, I was just quoting the MSRPs for the cars from wikipedia.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Publius

Use the inflation calculator for me and tell me how much something that was $3.35 in 1985 (minimum wage then) would cost now.

Originally Posted by Inflation Calculator

What cost $3.35 in 1985 would cost $5.95 in 2005.

A little higher than current minimum I think.

But what about average incomes?

edit: said lower when I meant higher

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

A little lower than current minimum I think.

But what about average incomes?

Minimum wage is $5.15, so minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. But there are also fewer people in minimum wage jobs today than there were in 1985, so average incomes have kept up with inflation. Most business start employees with no high school degree and no experience (i.e., teenagers) off at $6.00 or more these days, even fast food places.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Publius

Minimum wage is $5.15, so minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. But there are also fewer people in minimum wage jobs today than there were in 1985, so average incomes have kept up with inflation. Most business start employees with no high school degree and no experience (i.e., teenagers) off at $6.00 or more these days, even fast food places.

I know at the old sheet metal shop I used to work at (a place someone can work with only a GED) starts guys out at $8 and moves up $0.50 every 6 months for 2 years, and every year after that.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

This is completely wrong.

In 1985, the base price for a Corvette was $24,891. In 2005 it was $44,245. But look at how much more CAR you get for that almost double base price.

A basic corvette was 31k and 250hp in 1990
A basic corvette was 44k and 350hp in 2004

13k price increase, plus 14 years of inflation, for 100hp...yeah, real deal

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

A basic corvette was 31k and 250hp in 1990
A basic corvette was 44k and 350hp in 2004

13k price increase, plus 14 years of inflation, for 100hp...yeah, real deal

A lot of safety improvements as well. You have to look at the FULL picture.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Publius

A lot of safety improvements as well. You have to look at the FULL picture.

Cut back on weight. More use of fiberglass. More standard equipment and the corvette today doesn't just go fast in a straight line anymore.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

A lot of safety improvements as well. You have to look at the FULL picture.

13k(plus inflation) airbags...nice

you guys keep talk about falling prices, yet all i see are higher prices and some claims that we should value the "quality" because you say so

you are switching arguments

lets stick too how much cheaper it is today than it was in the early 90s

I've already took down that argument a few with showing cable tv, outlet clothing, basic foods, houses, etc etc

all you can come back and say is "well, laptops are cheaper and they are more powerful!"

well great, too bad most of the people in my family don't even own a laptop

[Publius]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Cut back on weight. More use of fiberglass. More standard equipment and the corvette today doesn't just go fast in a straight line anymore.

In many respects it is a completely different vehicle, and technologically speaking it is lightyears ahead of anything available in the mid-80s through the early 90s. In that, it is a perfect example of what I'm saying regarding quality... If you built an exact 1985 Corvette today, it'd be cheaper than it was back in 1985.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I think i'm going to believe the professor of economics at princton over you.

Of course you would. He is saying exactly what you need him to say. He is a Democratic hack that twists things around to make things look the way he NEEDS them to look so he can get a job when/if a Dem gets into office.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Of course you would. He is saying exactly what you need him to say. He is a Democratic hack that twists things around to make things look the way he NEEDS them to look so he can get a job when/if a Dem gets into office.

Prof Krugman makes his living as a scholar, winning awards across the world for his work in economics

Sean Hannity makes his living parroting GOP talking points

who is the hack?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

13k(plus inflation) airbags...nice

you guys keep talk about falling prices, yet all i see are higher prices and some claims that we should value the "quality" because you say so

you are switching arguments

lets stick too how much cheaper it is today than it was in the early 90s

I've already took down that argument a few with showing cable tv, outlet clothing, basic foods, houses, etc etc

all you can come back and say is "well, laptops are cheaper and they are more powerful!"

well great, too bad most of the people in my family don't even own a laptop

According to http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/aer780/aer780c.pdf, in 1997 a half-gallon of whole milk was $1.59, today according to Albertson's it can be had for $1.89.

According to the inflation calculator, if milk were to go up in price JUST on the basis of inflation it would $1.87 last year, and inflation thusfar this year would make up that .02 difference. So it seems a staple product has kept pace with inflation, and I'm sure most others have as well.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Publius