I'm thinking McCain could beat Hillary or Obama

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Bob Dole anyone?

He did real combat duty, and gave up the use of his arm to defeat the Nazis

Clintons had no trouble slamming him, they are pros

There was no backlash...because unlike Obama, McCain's campaign is going to attack Hillary personally on a bunch of BS 1993 issues and when a man attacks a woman like that, it leaves the door wide fucking open

You have way too much confidence in Hillary. Polls show she loses to McCain if elections were held today. This would also be a huge test to her polarization. If Hillary wins the nominee she'll bring out all the GOP voters we've seen showing a lackluster performance.

[garbagemanlb]

The only shot the Republicans have is if it is Hillary versus McCain. I think any other scenario is a not-so-close win by the Democrats.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

The only shot the Republicans have is if it is Hillary versus McCain. I think any other scenario is a not-so-close win by the Democrats.

Definitely.

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

The only shot the Republicans have is if it is Hillary versus McCain. I think any other scenario is a not-so-close win by the Democrats.

I would agree with that statement.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by JaJae

You have way too much confidence in Hillary. Polls show she loses to McCain if elections were held today. This would also be a huge test to her polarization. If Hillary wins the nominee she'll bring out all the GOP voters we've seen showing a lackluster performance.

All the 3 hillary haters have noted

Polls show Obama losing by 1.5 to McCain, Hillary losing by 1.8

Ofcourse, Hillary had a consistent lead for months, 17 consistent polls over 4 months...her over McCain...both had high name recognition

Average Joe saw McCain as the faltering candidate who was struggling not in his element

McCain is getting a walk in the park everytime he brings up Iraq, no one has done a nation-wide "blitz" on him...that being said, the largest and probably most organized poll taken this year by Bloomberb showed Hillary up 4 points

But please, let's step back here...Kerry had like a 5pt average lead at one point, Bush had like a 10 point average lead at one point, and we all know it came down to 60,000 votes in Ohio

McCain is still benefitting from all those debates where the GOP candidates started thanking him because they thought he was going to lose, and they were loathe to fire at him in a debate, even Romney who needed a real punch didn't pull one

The Democrats, Hillary especially, will do a multi-step strategy, first they will do "flip flop" extreme media highlights, which will make your swing voter do the same thing they did to John Kerry, and it's worse for McCain but he flipped during the end of the Primary, while Kerry flipped earlier and actually had a good reason but no one ever heard it

However, McCain's "I'd vote against my own bill!" is simply classic, one of many, and the Bush pictures won't help

Once the public is wary of him, the Democrats will tie him in with Bush, and McCain will not break away from him, not over loyalty but because it's a political science fact that such a GOP-dividing move would hurt him even though he'd love to do it to get indie votes

Everything will be "Do you want 4 more years of Bush-McCain Iraq? Do you want 4 more years of Bush-McCain failing healthcare?" you get the idea, the economy will be the best "Do you want 4 more years of the Bush-McCain recession?" Democrats will love asking McCain to cut himself off from Bush, but to do so would be a disaster, so it will be never ending torture

Then when he starts to drown, "you throw that son-of-a-bitch an anvil", Keating 5 starts up...the guy all about clean government has a long corrupt record they will wrap around him, he didn't start his "clean" record until...Clinton took office, and by then, it will be pointed out, it was out of political survival

Then the dirty-but-true stuff will start flying...his wife stayed faithful to him while he was away, but he cheated on her and then left her after she was sick from a car accident and he wanted younger women...real character, McCain even admits he was cruelly selfish...how such "i know i did wrong" comments would only help him if Hillary brought that up in TV ad or debate...and she won't

Then events will turn the table, Clinton will press again and again "What will John McCain do to help the middle class?" as he stutters and claws for unworkable or insignificant ideas, Hillary will be hammering home a message she's been doing all year, on ideas polls have shown Americans overwhelmingly want

If things in Iraq get worse (they certainly have a slim to zero chance of getting better in 10 months) then that and the perceived recession will destroy any chance McCain has against the outlayed strategy and we could see a blowout election with Hillary, not just a win

However, at the EC level...there is no reason any state will flip from Kerry to McCain, and Hillary has fertile ground and 10 months to remind Ohio voters how much they've grown to hate their state party

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

All the 3 hillary haters have noted

Polls show Obama losing by 1.5 to McCain, Hillary losing by 1.8

Ofcourse, Hillary had a consistent lead for months, 17 consistent polls over 4 months...her over McCain...both had high name recognition

Average Joe saw McCain as the faltering candidate who was struggling not in his element

McCain is getting a walk in the park everytime he brings up Iraq, no one has done a nation-wide "blitz" on him...that being said, the largest and probably most organized poll taken this year by Bloomberb showed Hillary up 4 points

But please, let's step back here...Kerry had like a 5pt average lead at one point, Bush had like a 10 point average lead at one point, and we all know it came down to 60,000 votes in Ohio

McCain is still benefitting from all those debates where the GOP candidates started thanking him because they thought he was going to lose, and they were loathe to fire at him in a debate, even Romney who needed a real punch didn't pull one

The Democrats, Hillary especially, will do a multi-step strategy, first they will do "flip flop" extreme media highlights, which will make your swing voter do the same thing they did to John Kerry, and it's worse for McCain but he flipped during the end of the Primary, while Kerry flipped earlier and actually had a good reason but no one ever heard it

However, McCain's "I'd vote against my own bill!" is simply classic, one of many, and the Bush pictures won't help

Once the public is wary of him, the Democrats will tie him in with Bush, and McCain will not break away from him, not over loyalty but because it's a political science fact that such a GOP-dividing move would hurt him even though he'd love to do it to get indie votes

Everything will be "Do you want 4 more years of Bush-McCain Iraq? Do you want 4 more years of Bush-McCain failing healthcare?" you get the idea, the economy will be the best "Do you want 4 more years of the Bush-McCain recession?" Democrats will love asking McCain to cut himself off from Bush, but to do so would be a disaster, so it will be never ending torture

Then when he starts to drown, "you throw that son-of-a-bitch an anvil", Keating 5 starts up...the guy all about clean government has a long corrupt record they will wrap around him, he didn't start his "clean" record until...Clinton took office, and by then, it will be pointed out, it was out of political survival

Then the dirty-but-true stuff will start flying...his wife stayed faithful to him while he was away, but he cheated on her and then left her after she was sick from a car accident and he wanted younger women...real character, McCain even admits he was cruelly selfish...how such "i know i did wrong" comments would only help him if Hillary brought that up in TV ad or debate...and she won't

Then events will turn the table, Clinton will press again and again "What will John McCain do to help the middle class?" as he stutters and claws for unworkable or insignificant ideas, Hillary will be hammering home a message she's been doing all year, on ideas polls have shown Americans overwhelmingly want

If things in Iraq get worse (they certainly have a slim to zero chance of getting better in 10 months) then that and the perceived recession will destroy any chance McCain has against the outlayed strategy and we could see a blowout election with Hillary, not just a win

However, at the EC level...there is no reason any state will flip from Kerry to McCain, and Hillary has fertile ground and 10 months to remind Ohio voters how much they've grown to hate their state party

this is exactly why Hillary would lose, don't you get it

this type of approach put wind in the sails of obama and it would do the same for McCain

[bheld]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

this is exactly why Hillary would lose, don't you get it

this type of approach put wind in the sails of obama and it would do the same for McCain

It's obviously not going to originate from her campaign. It'll be 527 groups like:

Americans for Family Values
Coalition for Truth in Politics
etc.

It's a page out of the Republican playbook of the last decade. Keep the campaign above the fray and leave the character assassination to "unaffiliated" organizations.

[goldenponderbob]

Is 08' shaping up as a battle between Clinton and McCain?

On a scale from 1-to-10 how anti-Bush/GOP would that pairing make this referendum?

04' became a contest between Kerry's Vietnam record and Bush's national guard service (twenty year old issues) rather than the referendum on current events we had expected.

As a result, voters in 04' handed the GOP complete control of the nation's government, and watched as they ran the nation's human and financial recources smack into the ground. Nothing in Irathe middle east is more secure for all the money and American blood spent

It's been year since the same voters took back the congress so democrats could have another shot at running things.

If the current government is really as unpopular as we're told, why are we choosing between candidates who could easily have taken us down the same path as the one we'er on.

Does anyone else have the feeling that this upcoming political season will turn on stuff as silly has what happened in 04'.

Hill says that sixty days into her reign she will end our involvment; maybe.
And McCain is liable to seek

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by bheld

It's obviously not going to originate from her campaign. It'll be 527 groups like:

Americans for Family Values
Coalition for Truth in Politics
etc.

It's a page out of the Republican playbook of the last decade. Keep the campaign above the fray and leave the character assassination to "unaffiliated" organizations.

They tried this with Bill, send him out to do Hillary's dirty work and it has failed. Obama is succeeding because he is refuses to get negative and it even appeals to me even though I don't agree with his policies.

[tbone]

Obama would smash McCain. McCain sold his soul when he backstepped on torture and sided with Bush on "everything." I respected him in his maverick days, but those appear to be gone.

McCain vs Hillary would be a good fight, hell its the lesser of the two evils again, just like last election.

[DosEquis]

I think McCain could probably give hillary a run for her money, but i think Obama could beat him. Of the two i would say Obama is probably the most electable.

This is of course not taking in to account their vice president.

[goldenponderbob]

I don't post often. I must have hit the send button before I finished my thought. Perhaps the thought of choosing between McCain and Clinton made me want to smack something and the send button got in the way.

A sort of freudian smack, as it were.

I was trying to end by stating that among candidates who might expand a our military adventurism in the middle east McCain, it seems to me, is the most dangerous.

And for what it's worth, I don't believe Hillary will have our troops out sixty days in to her reign, or even a hundred and sixty days. In fact, I'm thinking the opposite.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I must admit, that picture looks like a hug from Mini Me!

McCain is a war hero, Bush ducked service, that picture should be the other way around

[Thorgrim]

I think a detailed analysis of 1996 shows that "Republican War Heroes" can be effectively dealt with by the Clintons

And I'm really disappointed that no one here is willing to talk about Obama's general election problems...I'd bring up Hillary's if everyone else didn't constantly post about them already

He has a serious problem that he is an empty suit into which everyone pours into it their ideal candidate, but when he comes under the spotlight and he isn't mr perfect, they'll not vote or go with the safe bet of McCain (safe from an independent standpoint)

Think about it, what Obama idea do you REALLY LOVE? That just knocked you off your feat...a real plan that's going to push through Congress? What?

Also, you guys are underestimating internet slams, those chain mails of "HE'S A MUSLIM TERRORIST IAJIDAISNDIM!" do actually affect people

Everyone knows EVERYTHING about Hillary, and anything "new" sounds like such a repeat of the 90s it won't change anyones mind (Hsu, et al)

I can't imagine one bit of gossip on Drudge, or anywhere else that will actually change anyone's mind about Hillary

When you see Hillary polling at 42 or 48%...that's her ABSOLUTE baseline, there is no way she is going to get less support than that, not one American is going to "feel bad" and tell a pollster they are supporting a Clinton when they could say undecided or McCain

Obama? We've already seen a Bradley effect in NH, there's no other serious way to explain what happened

As a Democrat, I do not want to see Obama ahead by 10 points come Nov, and then the results come in and he lost by 3...all those white/latino voters simply couldn't pull the lever for a black guy

Even worse, as of now, he's losing to McCain just as bad as Hillary is...

And I haven't even gotten into the SUBSTANTIVE reasons I don't like him for president, as a Democrat

I'm talking about objective problems with people who see McCain, Hillary and Obama and say "I'd want Obama to be elected"

[SoFlaJDM]

no chance

[NICKHILL80]

I really hope McCain does not win this thing. I Like him, seems like a decent human being but come on, what changes do you really think he is going to impact. War on terror, Illegal Immigration. We have bigger issues going on right here with our own people and government. I don't think he has the will or the courage to change the necessary means. We need to start from the bottom up. I know the interest of the majority is getting the economy back where it once was, jobs, securing our borders, dadadadaa, but if we can't even agree with one another, and are still so divided amongst ourselves how do we fix these issues around us? We need a leader of the people. Someone who's willing to make change and sacrifice himself for the spirit and motivation of the people to move forward. Someone who is willing to lose all, go broke and fight till the end when all has gone wrong. I'm tired of hearing about experience this experience that, military background dat dat dat.
Obama has a well built background foundation. We need to let our leaders shine and prosper and stop holding back and make CHANGES. We live in a new world and the old system isn't working, stop being afraid. Its not about being Repub or Dem, white, black, male, female its making America, the world a better and safer place for everyone. Stop the greed, corruption, and disloyalty. Stand up make a name for yourself , have a voice heard. stop believing all the media and puppet head lies trying to make you believe in there own cult like world.

Sorry about the punctuation and the clutter, just trying throw everything out there fast.

Obama '08 "YES WE CAN"

[NICKHILL80]

oh and Go New England this wkd!!!!!!

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by NICKHILL80

I really hope McCain does not win this thing. I Like him, seems like a decent human being but come on, what changes do you really think he is going to impact. War on terror, Illegal Immigration. We have bigger issues going on right here with our own people and government. I don't think he has the will or the courage to change the necessary means. We need to start from the bottom up. I know the interest of the majority is getting the economy back where it once was, jobs, securing our borders, dadadadaa, but if we can't even agree with one another, and are still so divided amongst ourselves how do we fix these issues around us? We need a leader of the people. Someone who's willing to make change and sacrifice himself for the spirit and motivation of the people to move forward. Someone who is willing to lose all, go broke and fight till the end when all has gone wrong. I'm tired of hearing about experience this experience that, military background dat dat dat.
Obama has a well built background foundation. We need to let our leaders shine and prosper and stop holding back and make CHANGES. We live in a new world and the old system isn't working, stop being afraid. Its not about being Repub or Dem, white, black, male, female its making America, the world a better and safer place for everyone. Stop the greed, corruption, and disloyalty. Stand up make a name for yourself , have a voice heard. stop believing all the media and puppet head lies trying to make you believe in there own cult like world.

Sorry about the punctuation and the clutter, just trying throw everything out there fast.

Obama '08 "YES WE CAN"

except that he has no experience.

[bheld]

Originally Posted by Li