1994 McCain vs 2008 McCain

lew · 02-02-2008, 10:08 PM

YouTube Video

Amazing how you can watch Republicans oppose Clinton's wars but when it's a Republican war, they're all gung-ho about it. And most people buy into it.

There are very few people on either side that oppose most wars (Paul, Kucinich).

garbagemanlb · 02-02-2008, 10:11 PM

and yet people will vote for him because of the R next to his name. It really is sad.

Thorgrim · 02-03-2008, 07:13 AM

I think this make for some good television ads

SoFlaJDM · 02-03-2008, 10:44 AM

party above country

this is reason #14704813 why the dems will win easily in november. the GOP has been increasingly exposed as the hypocrite party... america is smarter now (i hope)

Ardentfrost · 02-03-2008, 12:02 PM

I agree about the TV ads and that this would be great ammunition against McCain if he gets the nomination, but it seems to prevent this same tactic from being used against Democrats, they'd need a very new candidate like Obama.

Political mud slinging is only good if the same mud can't be slung back.

Thorgrim · 02-03-2008, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I agree about the TV ads and that this would be great ammunition against McCain if he gets the nomination, but it seems to prevent this same tactic from being used against Democrats, they'd need a very new candidate like Obama.

Political mud slinging is only good if the same mud can't be slung back.

No

McCain is going to run as the maverick Republican who is very principled and although having all the best Republican virtues, he votes his conscience when he needs to...

This destroys that argument, will make him just "Generic Republican" which, as we've seen, loses to generic democrat by 20 points

Hillary being seen as someone who switches positions...that's such a "yeah i know, ive been hearing about all these horrible things about hillary for 16 years"

Ardentfrost · 02-03-2008, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

No

McCain is going to run as the maverick Republican who is very principled and although having all the best Republican virtues, he votes his conscience when he needs to...

This destroys that argument, will make him just "Generic Republican" which, as we've seen, loses to generic democrat by 20 points

Hillary being seen as someone who switches positions...that's such a "yeah i know, ive been hearing about all these horrible things about hillary for 16 years"

I thought 2004 showed that flip flopping on positions won't get you elected. You have plenty of ammunition for McCain in this thread, but do you think contradicting statements won't be used against Hilary? With something like McCain vs. Obama, the Democrats could run the same campaign Republicans did in 2004 (bringing to light the flip flopping of the opponent) and likely win easy. With Hilary vs. McCain, both sides would use that method and who knows who the winner would be? Why take that chance?

Thorgrim · 02-03-2008, 01:01 PM

Kerry lost because it went off like a light in people head "hey...it's only 3 years after 9/11, and this guy has no principles he just flip flops!" plus all the SBVT crap

It was for some swing voters, about sticking with the guy who was often wrong yet, they thought, strong in the face of terror, then a new guy who seemingly didn't take one stand on an issue

However, in 2008, with no incumbent, 9/11 and even Iraq fading as issues...having both candidates look like flip-floppers is great for whatever party has all the natural advantages...that would be Democrats

Listen, the former top 6 candidates in each party (12 total) all had negatives of about 50%, except for one candidate, McCain, who had only 24%!

Yet, he still has and is in a statistical tie with Hillary, put those negatives up to even just 40% because of all the shit thats FAIRLY being laid out against him...and watch those poll numbers drop like a rock...

Even with Rudy's "independent" image, after the scandals hit about his mistress special treats by the NYPD (which really isn't the biggest scandal...) he started losing to Hillary by a huge margin

Hero of 9/11, before the Florida vote:

Hillary 53
Giuliani 37

January 18th-22nd

+16 Hillary

That's what the race is going to look like in the Summer if Hillary plays her cards well

hsmith · 02-03-2008, 06:24 PM

we are in a post 9/11 world bro

RMNIXON · 02-04-2008, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I thought 2004 showed that flip flopping on positions won't get you elected. You have plenty of ammunition for McCain in this thread, but do you think contradicting statements won't be used against Hilary?

Yes they obviously will. If Hillary were smart she would not make Iraq a central issue, but rather show McCain weak and contradictory on domestic policy, taxes, ect. I don't think Iraq is going to anywhere near as important as it was in 2006.

kinggovernor · 02-04-2008, 07:25 PM

I though McCain was a warmonger?

kinggovernor · 02-04-2008, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Amazing how you can watch Republicans oppose Clinton's wars but when it's a Republican war, they're all gung-ho about it. And most people buy into it.

Haiti was not a war, Somalia was not a war. They were both UN peacekeeping actions

garbagemanlb · 02-04-2008, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I though McCain was a warmonger?

9/11 changed EVERYTHING, my friend.

Ardentfrost · 02-04-2008, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Yes they obviously will. If Hillary were smart she would not make Iraq a central issue, but rather show McCain weak and contradictory on domestic policy, taxes, ect. I don't think Iraq is going to anywhere near as important as it was in 2006.

At this rate the hot button issue will be the economy. Both Hilary and McCain want to spend more money. Who wins then?

lew · 02-04-2008, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

Haiti was not a war, Somalia was not a war. They were both UN peacekeeping actions

So is Iraq.

There has been no Declaration of War issued against Iraq.

The reasons cited to invading Iraq were from UN Resolutions.

So, yes, they are all the same.

kinggovernor · 02-04-2008, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by lew

So is Iraq.

There has been no Declaration of War issued against Iraq.

The reasons cited to invading Iraq were from UN Resolutions.

So, yes, they are all the same.

Iraq is not a UN peacekeeping mission.

RMNIXON · 02-04-2008, 09:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

At this rate the hot button issue will be the economy. Both Hillary and McCain want to spend more money. Who wins then?

I am not sure anyone does?

Ardentfrost · 02-04-2008, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I am not sure anyone does?

This post gets the "Truth In Posting Award" of 2-4-2008

Galactic Gigolo · 02-04-2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I am not sure anyone does?

China

And come on brah. We were attacked by Muslim extremists on September 11th. We gotta stay on the offensive against the threat of global jihad by being on the defensive.

This 'war' is different in how it started. We went to Haiti because we supposedly wanted a democratic state to survive. We went to Iraq because, through a gigantic intelligence blunder, some people believed its leader was a threat.

We removed Saddam Hussein and his government. We've accomplished the goal we set out to do. We've been occupying the country since then, just as we were occupying Haiti at that time.

Ardentfrost · 02-04-2008, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Galactic Gigolo

China

Not really