can you copyright a joke?

7960 · 02-04-2008, 12:23 PM

you can sue someone for writing down your joke and selling it?

However, that didn't stop Jay Leno and some other comedians from suing a woman who published a recent joke book that included some Leno jokes. Rather than go through a lawsuit, the woman and her publisher quickly settled the lawsuit paying an undisclosed sum and publicly apologizing. This leads William Patry to put together some details of other court cases looking into the copyrights of jokes, noting that Jeff Foxworthy sued someone for using his jokes, even though he admits people send joke ideas to him that he uses.

Techdirt: No Laughing Matter: Can You Copyright A Joke?

yeah yeah yeah, anyone can sue for anything, but leno also said

Leno is quoted as saying “I thought it was important to make it clear that jokes are protected like any other art form…. On behalf of the tremendous and talented group of writers we have at The Tonight Show and many other hardworking comedians, I'm very glad we've been able to stop this practice once and for all."

The Patry Copyright Blog: Jokes and Copyright

Really? Can I sue someone for writing down what I say and selling it?

WickedLou9 · 02-04-2008, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

you can sue someone for writing down your joke and selling it?

However, that didn't stop Jay Leno and some other comedians from suing a woman who published a recent joke book that included some Leno jokes. Rather than go through a lawsuit, the woman and her publisher quickly settled the lawsuit paying an undisclosed sum and publicly apologizing. This leads William Patry to put together some details of other court cases looking into the copyrights of jokes, noting that Jeff Foxworthy sued someone for using his jokes, even though he admits people send joke ideas to him that he uses.
Techdirt: No Laughing Matter: Can You Copyright A Joke?
yeah yeah yeah, anyone can sue for anything, but leno also said

Leno is quoted as saying “I thought it was important to make it clear that jokes are protected like any other art form…. On behalf of the tremendous and talented group of writers we have at The Tonight Show and many other hardworking comedians, I'm very glad we've been able to stop this practice once and for all."

The Patry Copyright Blog: Jokes and Copyright
Really? Can I sue someone for writing down what I say and selling it?

I think it depends. Jay Leno's jokes are what he does for a living. That's his "product" so to speak. What if you were hired to give a speech on some subject, and then somone copied your speech and sold it in a book and profited from that? What if your job is a professional motivational speaker?

It's different if I am just sitting there talking and someone writes down what I say and then prints them.

7960 · 02-04-2008, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

It's different if I am just sitting there talking and someone writes down what I say and then prints them.

why?

just because it's his job but it's not my job?

WickedLou9 · 02-04-2008, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

why?

just because it's his job but it's not my job?

pretty much yeah. It's someone taking the fruit of your labor and using it for thier own personal gain... The key is that you need to be able to show financial damages.

7960 · 02-04-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

pretty much yeah. It's someone taking the fruit of your labor and using it for thier own personal gain... The key is that you need to be able to show financial damages.

What damage is there? Leno used the joke...he told it. She didn't steal it before he got to finish his monologue.

motivez · 02-04-2008, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

Really? Can I sue someone for writing down what I say and selling it?

I think it falls under the same intellectual property laws that a book, short story, etc.. would

The length shouldn't really matter if you can demonstrate it's something you've created that's uniquely yours, should it?

7960 · 02-04-2008, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

I think it falls under the same intellectual property laws that a book, short story, etc.. would

The length shouldn't really matter if you can demonstrate it's something you've created that's uniquely yours, should it?

I do not believe you should be able to copyright a joke any more than I should be able to copyright anything you say.

JaJae · 02-04-2008, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I do not believe you should be able to copyright a joke any more than I should be able to copyright anything you say.

I don't think you should either, but I understand it.. especially if someone is making money off your words. At the same time though public speakers quote people all the time and get paid for their speeches. Perhaps if she had cited him as the source of the joke it wouldn't have been an issue? But she did take his material and pass it off as her own.

WickedLou9 · 02-04-2008, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

I don't think you should either, but I understand it.. especially if someone is making money off your words. At the same time though public speakers quote people all the time and get paid for their speeches. Perhaps if she had cited him as the source of the joke it wouldn't have been an issue? But she did take his material and pass it off as her own.

yeah the publisher should have got permission and paid some sort of royalties.

7960 · 02-04-2008, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Perhaps if she had cited him as the source of the joke it wouldn't have been an issue? But she did take his material and pass it off as her own.

amazon allows a preview of books for sale.

the book was written in 2002, the lawsuit was 2008, so I believe this is a page from the original book.

looks to me like she cites sources.

JaJae · 02-04-2008, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

amazon allows a preview of books for sale.

the book was written in 2002, the lawsuit was 2008, so I believe this is a page from the original book.

looks to me like she cites sources.

Book stores allow you to preview books as well. They aren't selling those captions for cash. They're selling the book, which benefits the author. It's a different scenario.

7960 · 02-04-2008, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by JaJae

Book stores allow you to preview books as well.

I was pointing out that the page I showed is a preview of the book from before the lawsuit, so she was giving credit to the jokes' author. You said

Perhaps if she had cited him as the source of the joke it wouldn't have been an issue? But she did take his material and pass it off as her own.

And that's exactly wha she did...she gave credit and did not try to pass anything off as her own.

JaJae · 02-04-2008, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

I was pointing out that the page I showed is a preview of the book from before the lawsuit, so she was giving credit to the jokes' author. You said
And that's exactly wha she did...she gave credit and did not try to pass anything off as her own.

Oh I got ya. Then yea I don't think he should be able to sue.

WickedLou9 · 02-04-2008, 05:37 PM

I don't think that giving credit is enough. When you are dealing with the fruits of someones labor, that's thier property. If I made a compilation of BIll Clinton's post presidential speeches and put them all in a book and sold the book for my own personal profit, it doesn't matter if I say they are Clinton's speeches. People pay him to come up with and make those speeches. That would be me taking the fruits of his labor and using them to make a profit for myself.

motivez · 02-05-2008, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by 7960

I do not believe you should be able to copyright a joke any more than I should be able to copyright anything you say.

There's a difference if that's how you make your living though.

Someone else using your material, printing your words for their profit without your permission, etc.. isn't right IMO.

I think as long as someone has a unique creative piece of work, whether it's a book, short story, poem, or a joke.. it's theirs and they should be able to protect their intellectual property.

I mean, for example, what if I go in and make a new book of poems I've found someone created without their permission, and make a lot of money, do you think they should have any recourse? How about a 5 page children's book? A short story? Etc..

If so, then what makes that so different than a joke other than the length of the work in question?

And if really nothing substantial, then it's more a debate about where a realistic cut off point should be.

7960 · 02-05-2008, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by motivez

I mean, for example, what if I go in and make a new book of poems I've found someone created without their permission, and make a lot of money, do you think they should have any recourse? How about a 5 page children's book? A short story? Etc..

If so,

My first question, did they write it down? Did they publish it in any way?

Because, in your example, if the person is standing on the corner making up free-form poetry and you write it down and put it in a book then I don't think they should be able to sue you for it.

I guess Leno has the argument that he wrote his jokes down during rehearsal so that might meet my requirement.

motivez · 02-05-2008, 01:58 PM

Why is it less theirs if they don't write it down so long as there's proof that it came from them?

7960 · 02-05-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

Why is it less theirs if they don't write it down so long as there's proof that it came from them?

how can you prove it came from them?

hereticzero · 02-05-2008, 02:34 PM

It is the presentation, not the subject matter that is protected. You can tell jokes about space aliens, for example, but not the same joke word for word. I see the same type of infringement with Reader's Digest. They quote a lot of Leno jokes from readers in that magazine. If a person is rewarded for performing word for word what someone else did previously, then the author should receive some of those rewards. Otherwise, be creative and tell jokes in your own words. Think of a different take on an old subject.

JaJae · 02-05-2008, 02:38 PM

I think I still have to agree with 7960 here. I don't see anything wrong with quoting someone. People quote movies, politicians, actors, comedians, song lyrics etc all the time. It would be one thing if you didn't give credit where it came from, but the author seems to have. I just don't think we should be threatened with lawsuits for quoting someone.