Obama & Hillary neck and neck...

[DosEquis]

Obama almost got sacked and just threw the ball up for grabs...and by some miracle his reciever caught it... created a major shift in momentum for the game. If hillary is to win she is going to have to play the rest of the game out perfect. If she has a DB slip just a tiny bit and let Plaxico get open in the endzone, she is going to lose this game.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Please tell me what Obama was coming back from...?

How did she slip in every state and win California, Arizona, Tennessee, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Arkansas, New Mexico (probably), New York and New Jersey

People come back from being down. He was down by large, large percentages. Super Tuesday did not reflect that, so he made a come back.

He gained ground on her in every single state, the ones that he was supposed to win were won by larger margins, the few swing ones like missouri and CT, he was not necessarily favored to win and did... and the states he was supposed to lose, he did not lose by as large of margin as anticipated.

he is on the rise, making a come back, doing whatever it is you want to call it.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Please tell me what Obama was coming back from...?

How did she slip in every state and win California, Arizona, Tennessee, Massachusetts, Oklahoma, Arkansas, New Mexico (probably), New York and New Jersey

Please read the thread.

She won the states, but she lost a large chunk of her lead in most of those states. Two months ago Hillary was a blow-out on the national scale. Now she'll be lucky if she's tied. And Obama's momentum continues to grow while she continues to drop her own money into her campaign in an attempt to bring it some new life.

This has probably been posted for you half a dozen times now.

[Thorgrim]

I know, every post for the past month has been about how Hillary lost her big leads, it's well beyond old

Obama was supposed to win California, New Mexico, and he was supposed to make it super close in Arizona, Massachusetts and even NY and NJ

She outperformed, the momentum going into Super Tuesday is why Hillary was not declared the loser by the media, who would LOVE to do so, unfortunately Obama's momentum meant he was supposed to do X and he did X-Y...which is not enough to be declared the winner of super tuesday by ANY media outlet

[garbagemanlb]

I just heard Hillary loaned her own campaign five million dollars so she could stay competitive with Obama.

Hopefully she doesn't go the way of that other candidate who used his own wealth to fund a campaign...

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

I just heard Hillary loaned her own campaign five million dollars so she could stay competitive with Obama.

Hopefully she doesn't go the way of that other candidate who used his own wealth to fund a campaign...

Yea she can't even afford to pay her staff..
The Page - by Mark Halperin - TIME

[garbagemanlb]

YouTube - HILLARY ELECTION DAY HEALTH SCARE



And people fucking question me why I detest her.

[Phantom]

Update: Intrade Prediction Markets

Hillary 43.1

Obama 56.0

[JaJae]

OBAMA'S OUTLOOK: HE'S STILL ON A ROLL

OBAMA'S OUTLOOK: HE'S STILL ON A ROLL

By KIRSTEN POWERS

February 7, 2008 -- IT'S the spin, stupid.

Most news outlets were ef fectively spun into reporting Super Tuesday's Democratic results as a "split" with no clear winner. Hats off to the Clinton campaign for that - because it belies reality.

In Tuesday's primary contest, Barack Obama won 13 states, Hillary Clinton eight. Obama also racked up slightly more delegates, according to NBC News' tally - which also put the popular vote at a virtual tie.

The Clinton campaign hasn't accepted this call but admits that the candidates will be separated by just a handful of delegates at best.

In a conference call yesterday with reporters, chief Clinton strategist Mark Penn hailed Hillary's supposedly big Super Tuesday and debunked what he called a series of "myths" about the Democratic primaries. Then he made up some of his own.

Topping the list was his claim that Hillary "bounced back" last night. Nonsense.

Clinton was long favored for Super Tuesday, the last week of Obama media hysteria notwithstanding. Obama's coming close to her, let alone beating her among delegates, is a win for him.

In the weeks before the vote, she saw massive leads of 20 to 25 points across the country diminish as he closed the gap. But she was still up in most of the toss-up states in the days before the primary.

California was a big win for her, but hardly a surprise. The surprise would've been if she'd lost.

...

In another myth foisted on the media yesterday, Penn branded Obama as the "establishment candidate." He's no more that than he was the "black candidate."

Remember when Clinton was the presumed nominee and Obama was a new US senator who most recently hailed from the Illinois Legislature? It wasn't that long ago. Clinton was an international celebrity, and Obama was, in Washington parlance, a nobody.

Clinton was proud of her establishment support. It's why she's leading with super delegates and racked up key endorsements from elected officials in state after state.

More from Kirsten Powers...

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by JaJae

OBAMA'S OUTLOOK: HE'S STILL ON A ROLL

More from Kirsten Powers...

@ Penn calling Obama the establishment candidate.

God I want her to go down in the upcoming primaries.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

@ Penn calling Obama the establishment candidate.

God I want her to go down in the upcoming primaries.

No one has more establishment support than Obama...look at who is supporting him? it's a who's who list of the old democratic machine

[garbagemanlb]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

No one has more establishment support than Obama...look at who is supporting him? it's a who's who list of the old democratic machine

....I'd love a fucking list comparing the 'establishment' politicians and who they are supporting. The Clinton name is like Reagan in the GOP circles.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by garbagemanlb

....I'd love a fucking list comparing the 'establishment' politicians and who they are supporting. The Clinton name is like Reagan in the GOP circles.

Donald Alexander (Akin, Gump, Strauss, Hauer & Feld)
John Buscher (Holland & Knight)
Kevin Chavous (Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal)
Tom Daschle (Alston & Bird)
Stan Fendley (Corning)
Elizabeth Fox (Jolly/Rissler)
Francis Grab (Washington Council Ernst & Young)
Tim Hannegan (Wexler & Walker Public Policy Associates)
Tom Jensen (Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal)
Broderick Johnson (Bryan Cave Strategies)
Mark Keam (Verizon)
Bob Maloney (Maloney Government Relations)
Marcus Mason (The Madison Group)
Andy Rosenberg (Ogilvy Government Relations)
Bobby Sepucha (Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal)
Jarvis Stewart (Stewart Partners)
Tom Walls (McGuireWoods)
Michael Williams (Credit Suisse)
Thomas Daschle, Fmr. Dem. House Majority Leader
Adrien Fenty, Mayor of Washington DC
Rod Blagojevich, Illinois Governor
. Dick Durbin, US Senator of Illinois
Richard Daley, Mayor of Chicago
Ted Sorenson, JFK Advisor/ Speech Writer
Zbigniew Brzezinski, Fmr. Pres. Carter’s NSA
Tim Keane, Governor of Virginia
Phil Leventis, SC State Senator
Kay Patterson, SC State Senator
Arthur Davis, Alabama US Congressman
.Bill Beck, Mayor of Durham, NC
Gov. Kaine, Virginia
Frank Cownie, Mayor of Des Moines, IA
Gov. Sebelieus, Kansas
.Harris Woffard, Fmr. PA Senator
Glenn Reese, SC State Senator
.Carol Shea-Porter, US Congresswoman NH
.Barbara Lee, California Representative
.Betty MacCollum, NM Congressman
.Dave Loebsack, IA Congressman
Ted kenney, Mass Senator
.Jim Hodges, Fmr Governor of South Carolina
Patrick Kenney, US Congressman
.Douglas Wilder, Mayor of Richmond VA
CAroline Kennedy, daug. JFKenney
Paul Hodes, US Representative of NH
.Steve Rothman, Representative of New Jersey
Paul Hodes, NH US Congressman
.Gwen Moore, Representative of Wisconsin

.Willie Hines, Chairmain/ Council of State-Wisconsin

.Jim Doyle, Governor of Illinois

.Cory Booker, Mayor of Newark, NJ

.Jeremiah Healy, Mayor of Jesrey City, NJ

.Ned Lamont, US Senator, Connecticut

(Fmr candidate Chris Dodd’s aide)

.Dave Bieter, Mayor of Boise, Idaho

.Mike Burket, Idaho Rep.

Edgar Malepeai, Idaho Rep.

Nicole Lefavour, Idaho Rep.

Les Bock, Idaho Rep.

James Ruchti, Idaho Rep.

Wendy Jacquet, Idaho House Minority Leader

Gary Hart, Colorado Senator ( Twice Pres. Candidate)
.Ethel Kennedy, Senator Bob Kennedy’s Widow

Jesse Jackson Jr. Rep. Illinois

Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. -Civil Rights Leader, Rainbow Coalition
Bobby Rush, Illinois State Rep.

.Emil Jones, Illinois State Rep.

Michael Fitzgerald, IA State Treasurer

Tom Miller, Iowa Attorney General

.Tim Johnson, South Dakota Senator

Bill Perkins, NY State Senator

Ben Nelson, Nevada Senator

Janet Napolitano, Governor of Arizona

(seen as potential VP in any Dem. Admin.)

Bill Bradley, US Senator, NJ

Hank Johnson, Georgia Congressman

Jim Doyle, Governor of Wisconsin

Patrick Murphy, PA Congressman

John Kerry, Mass US Senator, 2004 Pres. Candidate

Deval Patrick, Governor of Massachusetts

Shirley Franklin, Mayor of Atlanta

Kasim Reed, Georgia State Senator

Claire McCaskill, US Senator from Missouri

John Conyers, US Congressman, D Michigan

Patrick Leahy, US Senator, D Vermont

Tony Knowles, Fmr Governor of Alaska

Andrew Sullivan, Commentator

Oprah Winfrey, TV Show

Democratic establishment, particularly on Capitol Hill, is breaking rank with the Clintons...Kennedy's defection followed those of 2004 Democratic nominee John Kerry (along with many of his biggest fund raisers) and Vermont's Pat Leahy. Obama also counts among his growing list of supporters Senators such as Tim Johnson, Kent Conrad, Ben Nelson and Claire McCaskill, as well as governors Janet Napolitano and Kathleen Sebelius

From the powerful big liberal Senators (Kennedy), to the very influential conservative senators (Conrad)...former majority leader/senator Sen. Daschle...look at the list you'll see a lot of old school Democrats and big contributors

Female Senators naturally supported her, as did NY's other senator, but basically it revolves around the centrist model like Sen. Evan Bayh...trying to make the Democratic party more moderate...but the old establishment like Kennedy doesn't want that kind of change

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

No one has more establishment support than Obama...look at who is supporting him? it's a who's who list of the old democratic machine

and that list must have Hillary scared shitless.

my how things have changed...

[Oprah Winfrey as democratic establishment though? That's a bit of a stretch ]

[Sean Stock]

I don't think Hillary can win this. She was racing time, and she lost. If you're a liberal, and you see Obama speak, there is a 50% chance you switch sides from Clinton. If you like Obama, and you see Hillary speak, you laugh in her face. Obama is going to wrap this up nicely and he wields his economic leverage.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Phantom

and that list must have Hillary scared shitless.

my how things have changed...

[Oprah Winfrey as democratic establishment though? That's a bit of a stretch ]

The list is only about 100 people long and includes celebrities, former politicians, state politicians, mayors, etc. If someone took the time to comprise a list for Hillary I'm willing to bet it would be multiples in length.

Hillary is the establishment candidate by far and large.

[DosEquis]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

From the powerful big liberal Senators (Kennedy), to the very influential conservative senators (Conrad)...former majority leader/senator Sen. Daschle...look at the list you'll see a lot of old school Democrats and big contributors

Female Senators naturally supported her, as did NY's other senator, but basically it revolves around the centrist model like Sen. Evan Bayh...trying to make the Democratic party more moderate...but the old establishment like Kennedy doesn't want that kind of change

With all that old school liberal support, you would think you would be on board with Mr. Obama instead of Hillary. They have all signed on for the collective good comrade, join the party. I don't see you supporting a "moderate" anyway.

Further it is completely fucking retarded to base the accusation of him being an "establishment" candidate because of those who are endorsing him.

[Scrum]

Andrew Sullivan is an "establishment" Democrat?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by DosEquis

With all that old school liberal support, you would think you would be on board with Mr. Obama instead of Hillary. They have all signed on for the collective good comrade, join the party. I don't see you supporting a "moderate" anyway.

Further it is completely fucking retarded to base the accusation of him being an "establishment" candidate because of those who are endorsing him.

I liked Howard Dean in 2004, he was more liberal, that doesn't mean I'd vote for him...

It's not just about ideology and policy positions, it's also about who can be elected, and what would they actually do in office

I really see a Obama as a big gamble for the general election, like Howard Dean, and we don't need that

Also, even if he got elected, i really see him twiddling his thumbs as we're still suffering from the recession, and his "bipartisan" vague ideas never get turned into an actual bill, or the ones that do get blocked in the Senate

After 4 years he's seen as a do-nothing president who is tossed out