Feeling kinda disheartened - Page 5

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

The idea that the law can be ignored when it's convenient for the majority is the sort of thinking that allows majorities of racist individuals to run roughshod over the rights of minorities.

Which is a problem that has usually fixed itself over time...racism and ignorance happens whether constitutional or not.

Originally Posted by thewise1

Amend the goddamn thing, and if you can actually pull that off per the constitutional process, then I won't have a right to bitch anymore that the law isn't being followed.

You are bitching left and right and what's being done about it? Sure, you have every right in the world to bitch...calling the rest of society stupid won't get many people to join you though.

thewise1 · 02-06-2008, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Which is a problem that has usually fixed itself over time...racism and ignorance happens whether constitutional or not.

You are bitching left and right and what's being done about it? Sure, you have every right in the world to bitch...calling the rest of society stupid won't get many people to join you though.

Why have a set of laws at all then, if they are to only be applied when it's to your party's advantage?

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

The fact is, there isn't a majority of people who want these things, because if there were, amending the constitution wouldn't be a problem.

No, there isn't a majority that CARE about these things...not necessarily want. BTW, if you look at the current political atmosphere, we can't even get simple bills and laws passed without interference from 12 different directions...how do you think the amendment process would work?

Fed Up · 02-06-2008, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

He's saying it doesn't matter the basis, dropping the DoEd SEEMS radical to most people who have no knowledge of politics or history.

Gotcha...

fits in with my statement earlier about the Department of ~~Education~~ Indoctrination, that keeps it as such.

Fed Up

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Why have a set of laws at all then, if they are to only be applied when it's to your party's advantage?

People ignore laws all the time...you think it matters if they are in your county or in the Constitution? Even when caught red handed we ALL know that you can get out of ANYTHING with money. I think a majority of people have no problem with taxes and NASA and the Dept of Education...I think where people have a problem with such things are in the application...or how those things are being used/run. Instead of saying "abolish" all those things, most people just want them run right.

Grouch · 02-06-2008, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by lew

So, let me see if I can get this straight...

McCain claims he is a strong conservative now and will fight for low taxes, low spending, etc. People like you claim "It doesn't matter what he says, it's his record." And rightly so. In light of his record, he's horrible. I won't vote for him.

At the same time, Romney claims he is a strong conservative now and will fight for low, low spending, etc. People then claim "It doesn't matter what his record is, what he speaks now is important. He has changed."

Umm, fuck that.

McCain, Romney, and Huckabee all were garbage.

Don't blame Paul supporters for voting for Paul. Those people would never have supported Romney. Or McCain. Or Huckabee.

You are dishonestly ignoring their differences though. McCain wants illegal Immigration, No ANWAR and other pristine drilling; McCain apposed the Bush tax cuts and is supported by just about every major liberal paper that has given an endorsement.

From what it sounds like you really knew jack shit about either of them and have just been sack riding a guy with no chance and inadvertently ushering in the worst of the 2 that have a chance.

Thanks for bringing socialism to the US even faster.

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Gotcha...

fits in with my statement earlier about the Department of ~~Education~~ Indoctrination, that keeps it as such.

Fed Up

Yes, we are all ignorant zombies stuck in the Matrix. We bow to your godly presence.

Fed Up · 02-06-2008, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

The notion of basing your whole existence on a 2000 year old...I mean 200 year old document...is kind of out there to begin with. The amount of people who want to sit there and follow the Constitution LINE BY LINE is pretty much = to the amount of people who want to add things like Gay Marriage amendments to it. You're a minority. Most of us want a society that grows...not one that stays locked in a box...guided by concrete rules that are outdated and 100s of years old. The broad interpretations of the Constitution are apparently what society as a whole wants. Yes, there are times where people like Bush S-T-R-E-T-C-H what they can out of it...but most of the things you and your people complain about, like the IRS or Dept of Education, are things this society wants.

You are a fringe group of radicals who claim holiness in all things government...which turns people off to your cause. No matter what you come at people with "we are right, you are wrong" and that ALWAYS makes people run.

Thanks for the laugh!

Now I know for a fact the Department of ~~Education~~ Indoctrination has been successful for you!

The Founding Fathers stood for limited government, not "holiness in all things government." Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

And speaking of Bush S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G: Executive Orders Issued by President George W. Bush

Fed Up

Fed Up · 02-06-2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yes, we are all ignorant zombies stuck in the Matrix. We bow to your godly presence.

See above...

Fed Up

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Thanks for the laugh!

Now I know for a fact the Department of ~~Education~~ Indoctrination has been successful for you!

The Founding Fathers stood for limited government, not "holiness in all things government." Have you ever read the Declaration of Independence?

And speaking of Bush S-T-R-E-T-C-H-I-N-G: Executive Orders Issued by President George W. Bush

Fed Up

The Founding Fathers are dead...did you not notice? They would have no idea how to exist in today's society no more than a caveman would have in their times. It is completely ignorant to assume that if given a quill and a parchment those people would even come close to writing the same document they did hundreds of years ago.

Ardentfrost · 02-06-2008, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

This is exactly what I am talking about. Sorry us little people just have no comprehension of the ways of the Jedi. We'll try to stay out of your way.

Have you guys ever thought it doesn't matter to people? Sure, Department of Education may be Unconstitutional...but have you ever thought people just don't care?

Wow, wasn't even referring to you. I can only assume that the people on these boards have some cursory knowledge of the Constitution, and in your case I would assume you just don't CARE what it says.

I was talking about the average voter who does NOT follow politics, probably hasn't read a word in the constitution since grade school, and accepts the status quo as a general good with possibly some things that should be fixed/changed (otherwise how would they decide on who to vote for?)

Fed Up · 02-06-2008, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

The Founding Fathers are dead...did you not notice? They would have no idea how to exist in today's society no more than a caveman would have in their times. It is completely ignorant to assume that if given a quill and a parchment those people would even come close to writing the same document they did hundreds of years ago.

So by your logic, we should all just forget what centuries of lessons have taught us? By your logic, there comes a certain point in time that what was taught to your father and your father's father becomes irrelevant right?

So, on the contrary to what was written a couple hundred years ago, you would prefer total anarchy! Perfect solution. No rule of law because that's so "caveman!"

Unreal...

Did you ever stop to think that if Congress had followed The Constitution, we wouldn't have fiat money, inflation or fought the Vietnam, Korean or Iraq wars?

Nah.... better to make things up as we go along....

Fed Up

thewise1 · 02-06-2008, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

People ignore laws all the time...you think it matters if they are in your county or in the Constitution? Even when caught red handed we ALL know that you can get out of ANYTHING with money. I think a majority of people have no problem with taxes and NASA and the Dept of Education...I think where people have a problem with such things are in the application...or how those things are being used/run. Instead of saying "abolish" all those things, most people just want them run right.

So when you pass gun control laws, do you expect them to be followed? Or will you just selectively enforce them on people you don't want to have guns?

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Wow, wasn't even referring to you. I can only assume that the people on these boards have some cursory knowledge of the Constitution, and in your case I would assume you just don't CARE what it says.

You'd be wrong. I just don't agree with the bevy of "hey, that's unconstitutional" arguments Ron Paul and libertarians give because it's all subjective and based on interpretations.

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I was talking about the average voter who does NOT follow politics, probably hasn't read a word in the constitution since grade school, and accepts the status quo as a general good with possibly some things that should be fixed/changed (otherwise how would they decide on who to vote for?)

Most people see things in good or bad terms. If something is good for society, then it gets the benefit of the doubt. If it is bad, then it gets scrutinized.

Fed Up · 02-06-2008, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

People ignore laws all the time...you think it matters if they are in your county or in the Constitution? Even when caught red handed we ALL know that you can get out of ANYTHING with money. I think a majority of people have no problem with taxes and NASA and the Dept of Education...I think where people have a problem with such things are in the application...or how those things are being used/run. Instead of saying "abolish" all those things, most people just want them run right.

Donkey, how does the Constitution define money? Is the word "money" even in the Constitution?

Oh...that's right....the Constitution doesn't matter.

Fed Up

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

So by your logic, we should all just forget what centuries of lessons have taught us? By your logic, there comes a certain point in time that what was taught to your father and your father's father becomes irrelevant right?

My father's father came from Italy. Lessons are different depending on where in the world someone's father came from. If you haven't noticed, most of the country came from somewhere else.

Originally Posted by Fed Up

So, on the contrary to what was written a couple hundred years ago, you would prefer total anarchy! Perfect solution. No rule of law because that's so "caveman!"

Unreal...

Point out the anarchy for me...I am sure not seeing it. And no, I don't "prefer" that. I would "prefer" a Constitutional Convention every 100 years. Not that what I "prefer" matters.

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Did you ever stop to think that if Congress had followed The Constitution, we wouldn't have fiat money, inflation or fought the Vietnam, Korean or Iraq wars?

Nah.... better to make things up as we go along....

Fed Up

Yes, the Constitution...I loved that part about slavery. It was the greatest document every written. Women loved all the rights they had too.

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Donkey, how does the Constitution define money? Is the word "money" even in the Constitution?

Oh...that's right....the Constitution doesn't matter.

Fed Up

Why don't you just get to your point and explain what you're wanting to argue about? Surely it has to do with Ron Paul and his money arguments...gold standard...Ron Paul bucks or whatever he wants to make.

thewise1 · 02-06-2008, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

My father's father came from Italy. Lessons are different depending on where in the world someone's father came from. If you haven't noticed, most of the country came from somewhere else.

Point out the anarchy for me...I am sure not seeing it. And no, I don't "prefer" that. I would "prefer" a Constitutional Convention every 100 years. Not that what I "prefer" matters.

Yes, the Constitution...I loved that part about slavery. It was the greatest document every written. Women loved all the rights they had too.

It's not a perfect document, but it's the supreme law of the land, and you're perfectly fine with ignoring it when it gives us rights, but expect us to follow laws that you happen to agree with that take away rights.

This is even more disheartening.

Donkey® · 02-06-2008, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

So when you pass gun control laws, do you expect them to be followed? Or will you just selectively enforce them on people you don't want to have guns?

Gun control laws are a waste of time for the most part. So are drug laws. But they affect a minority of society to begin with so I am not sure what you want to talk about here.