Feeling kinda disheartened - Page 9

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

You want to prove that?

Lawn work at Romney's home still done by illegal immigrants - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

Standing on stage at a Republican debate on the Gulf Coast of Florida last week, Mitt Romney repeatedly lashed out at rival Rudy Giuliani for providing sanctuary to illegal immigrants in New York City.

Yet, the very next morning, on Thursday, at least two illegal immigrants stepped out of a hulking maroon pickup truck in the driveway of Romney's Belmont house, then proceeded to spend several hours raking leaves, clearing debris from Romney's tennis court, and loading the refuse back on to the truck.

In fact, their work was part of a regular pattern. Despite a Globe story in Dec. 2006 that highlighted Romney's use of illegal immigrants to tend to his lawn, Romney continued to employ the same landscaping company -- until today. The landscaping company, in turn, continued to employ illegal immigrants.

Thorgrim · 02-07-2008, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Yeah you never posted thinktank studies about gun control

If you say so buddy

I'd use them as a source to find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, or basic statistics that were again, sourced elsewhere, as means for attacking one point of an argument

I would not cut and paste their conclusions and go "done!!" In fact I NEVER used a conclusion, or even a section of their argument

It would simply be that someone would make an outrageous statement about guns and I'd find the only online-accessible point that completely debunked what they were saying

Now, Andy, if you were to say "Statistics have shown some states with mandatory insurance have had their rates go up" that would be PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE and I wouldn't challenge you because
1) You're correct
2) I did the same kind of presentations on OT

But you're making HUGE broad strokes that basically all but says that mandatory laws has cost us all money, and you've specifically said that mandatory laws have caused all these states rates to go up

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

At least Romney can say he's have a definite personal attitude change. McCain has never said such a thing.

So, it's just a coincidence that Romney's vast changes in multiple positions happened around the time he decided to run for President.

thewise1 · 02-07-2008, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'd use them as a source to find anecdotal evidence to the contrary, or basic statistics that were again, sourced elsewhere, as means for attacking one point of an argument

I would not cut and paste their conclusions and go "done!!" In fact I NEVER used a conclusion, or even a section of their argument

It would simply be that someone would make an outrageous statement about guns and I'd find the only online-accessible point that completely debunked what they were saying

Now, Andy, if you were to say "Statistics have shown some states with mandatory insurance have had their rates go up" that would be PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE and I wouldn't challenge you because
1) You're correct
2) I did the same kind of presentations on OT

But you're making HUGE broad strokes that basically all but says that mandatory laws has cost us all money, and you've specifically said that mandatory laws have caused all these states rates to go up

Bud... it's Andrew, please

I fucking hate the name Andy

IB everyone starts calling me Andy

Anyway, I stand by what I said. The evidence is there, some people just choose not to see it because it would require that they question their belief. It's no different than the ignorance you often faced (whether you were right or wrong, people wouldn't question their ALSO wrong belief, myself included).

You can write off the study or review it and see that it's true.

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by lew

Lawn work at Romney's home still done by illegal immigrants - Local News Updates - The Boston Globe

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Romney fires landscaping firm over illegal immigrants « - Blogs from CNN.com

The move came after The Boston Globe approached the campaign earlier in the day with what a campaign official called "credible information" that the company continued to employ undocumented workers, including several who worked at the Romney home.

In a prepared statement late Tuesday, campaign spokesman Kevin Madden said Romney had taken “immediate action” to fire the company after he learned it had continued to violate the law.

In the same prepared statement, Romney said he had given the company a “second chance” after the Globe reported similar allegations last year, but found their continued “failure to comply with the law” to be “disappointing and inexcusable.”

What you have failed to do, is prove the Romney heired the company knowing the were going to be using illegals. Like he asked for proof of immigration status for each person to be sub contracted out. But yet it's a good talking point so I'm sure you'll try and get your money out of it.

thewise1 · 02-07-2008, 04:23 PM

Romney is irrelevant anyway. Grouch, you can join me in eating sour grapes now, although you kind of already have

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Romney is irrelevant anyway. Grouch, you can join me in eating sour grapes now, although you kind of already have

Romney is irrelevant now. Socialism is coming in 08 no matter who is elected.

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

CNN Political Ticker: All politics, all the time Blog Archive - Romney fires landscaping firm over illegal immigrants « - Blogs from CNN.com

What you have failed to do, is prove the Romney heired the company knowing the were going to be using illegals. Like he asked for proof of immigration status for each person to be sub contracted out. But yet it's a good talking point so I'm sure you'll try and get your money out of it.

He hires a company that is known for employing illegals. After it is reported that the company employees illegals on Romney's property, Romney continues using that same company for about a year.

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by lew

He hires a company that is known for employing illegals. After it is reported that the company employees illegals on Romney's property, Romney continues using that same company for about a year.

Romney fired them, then rehired them. The company was not honest with Romney when it came to their use of illegal immigrants during their second term of employment.

Thorgrim · 02-07-2008, 04:29 PM

I never asked anyone to "hey, read this study from this liberal think tank, and ull see im right!" so don't expect me to look at some right-wing think tank "study"

Publius · 02-07-2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

Romney fired them, then rehired them. The company was not honest with Romney when it came to their use of illegal immigrants during their second term of employment.

So what you're saying is...

He was for them before he was against them before he was for them?

thewise1 · 02-07-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

So what you're saying is...

He was for them before he was against them before he was for them?

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

Romney fired them, then rehired them. The company was not honest with Romney when it came to their use of illegal immigrants during their second term of employment.

ok

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:38 PM

Lew you should read what the Boston globe actually says about the illegals being heired.

Illegal immigrants toiled for governor - The Boston Globe

The employees told the Globe that company owner Ricardo Saenz never asked them to provide documents showing their immigration status and knew they were illegal immigrants.

Romney never inquired about their status, they said.

Saenz said he met Romney through the Mormon Church and said Romney has used his company's services for a decade. Saenz said Romney never asked him if his workers are legal immigrants.
"He doesn't have to ask," Saenz said. "I'm a company."
Saenz asserted that all the workers he used were in the United States legally. Told by reporters that his employees said they were in this country illegally, Saenz responded: "What you've heard is not my problem."
Saenz said he had never requested any proof from his employees to show they are here legally.
"I don't need to tell them to show me documents," he said. "I know who they are, and they are legal."

Yeah man he totally knew they were illegals.

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Publius

So what you're saying is...

He was for them before he was against them before he was for them?

Nice try, but you failed since like lew you look for talking point, not facts. Educate yourself by reading the post above.

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by lew

ok

that seems to be the extent of most of your arguments.

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

Lew you should read what the Boston globe actually says about the illegals being heired.

Illegal immigrants toiled for governor - The Boston Globe

Yeah man he totally knew they were illegals.

You don't seem to be getting the point.

It's not about him hiring illegal immigrants.

It's about him hiring illegal immigrants that he didn't know were illegal, then having a newspaper expose it, then him continuing to use the same people for a year before running for President, saying he's "tough" on immigration, and then firing the company after Giuliani called his house a "sanctuary mansion."

Grouch · 02-07-2008, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by lew

It's about him hiring illegal immigrants that he didn't know were illegal, then having a newspaper expose it, then him continuing to use the same people for a year before running for President, saying he's "tough" on immigration, and then firing the company after Giuliani called his house a "sanctuary mansion."

He hired a company. The company hired illegals. They company told Romney and everyone else that mattered, local police and the newspaper they were not illegals. The company lied at no fault of Romney. Fuck why is that so hard for you to understand?

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

He hired a company. The company hired illegals. They company told Romney and everyone else that mattered, local police and the newspaper they were not illegals. The company lied at no fault of Romney. Fuck why is that so hard for you to understand?

Because he failed to fire that company until he was blasted for it on national TV, why is that so hard for you to understand?

lew · 02-07-2008, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Grouch

Do you even read reports? They were let go then given a second chance, told everyone their employees were legal which they lied about. When it turned up again they were fired.

Like I've said all you've got are talking points, reality is not part of your experience here.

Romney's account differs from that of landscape company owner Ricardo Saenz, who said that Romney didn't press the issue of whether his workers were in the country illegally. Asked if the Romney household expressed reservations about rehiring him after last year's story, he said, "Why would they have any problem?"

The owner says that Romney didn't even ask about illegal status or anything, it was of no concern to him.