Who remembers when I was a liberal?

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by thomez

ibyoustillareliberal

. filthy hippie

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

you two are so confused...you're barely just right of thorgrim it's not even funny.

That's a bit far, but I do think they both go left a bit... they at least have their left blinker on.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's a bit far, but I do think they both go left a bit... they at least have their left blinker on.

It's because these guys have shifted the scale to the right and anyone who don't like Bush is a leftist.

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

It's because these guys have shifted the scale to the right and anyone who don't like Bush is a leftist.

but Bush is a leftist

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

but Bush is a leftist

No he isn't, he's a neo-con. The 2D scale is horrible for political affiliation.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

It's because these guys have shifted the scale to the right and anyone who don't like Bush is a leftist.

Right and left haven't shifted, Democrats and Republicans have shifted around. I'm not calling them left compared to republicans, I'm calling them left of center due to some of their economic ideals.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Right and left haven't shifted, Democrats and Republicans have shifted around. I'm not calling them left compared to republicans, I'm calling them left of center due to some of their economic ideals.

That's why you say they have their blinkers on and many would call them full on liberals.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

you two are so confused...you're barely just right of thorgrim it's not even funny.

Right, but you're a conservative because you sackride and support everything Bush does without fail?

It's funny how you bash thomez for "not knowing what he's talking about" by pointing out that you're not a real conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but then turn around and try to do it to me in this thread..

I'm a centrist/moderate in that I'm socially liberal and economically conservative. I'm not nearly as conservative as some when it comes to economic stuff, but I generally agree with small government (to an extent), etc, etc..

Thanks for playing though.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Wow, only unintelligent professors are liberals.


Have any "You might be a redneck" jokes you want to do next?

It was just a hoke, but if you're interested in redneck jokes I'm sure I could help you out.

In all honesty though, it does seem that people who go to school for economics or business have a much higher rate of being "conservative". It seems the more they know about business and the economy the greater chance they are to follow conservative economic principles... aka emfuser, publius, thomez, etc. It's been my experience that the business/economy people often swing right on economic issues and in turn often causes them to vote Republican.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by ballz2wallz

you two are so confused...you're barely just right of thorgrim it's not even funny.

Not confused at all. I side with the government on some issues...side with the masses on others. It varies by issue. Unlike some people, I don't follow a particular "party line" like a tool.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

No he isn't, he's a neo-con. The 2D scale is horrible for political affiliation.

Read the history of the neo-con movement. They are leftists.



Neoconservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"First, many of the movement's founders, originally liberals, Democrats or from socialist backgrounds, "

[Diesel66]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

No he isn't, he's a neo-con. The 2D scale is horrible for political affiliation.

and neocons are nothing more then liberal hawks that left the Democrat party because they went anti-war

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Diesel66

and neocons are nothing more then liberal hawks that left the Democrat party because they went anti-war

Where do you get such an idea?

[lew]

Originally Posted by motivez

Where do you get such an idea?

That's what they are.



Neoconservatism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"New" conservatives initially approached this view from the political left, especially in response to key developments in modern American history.

The forerunners of neoconservativism were generally liberals or socialists who strongly supported the Second World War, and who were influenced by the Depression-era ideas of former New Dealers, trade unionists, and Trotskyists, particularly those who followed the political ideas of Max Shachtman. A number of future neoconservatives such as Jeane Kirkpatrick and Kenneth L. Adelman were Shachtmanites in their youth, while others were later involved with Social Democrats USA. Most neoconservatives, however, including those who have been close to SDUSA, will strenuously deny, even contrary to evidence, that they were ever Shachtmanites.

Some of the mid-20th Century New York Intellectuals were forebears of neoconservatism. The most notable was literary critic Lionel Trilling, who wrote, "In the United States at this time liberalism is not only the dominant but even the sole intellectual tradition." It was this liberal "vital center" that the neocons would see as threatened by New Left extremism.

Opposition to Détente with the Soviet Union and the views of the anti-Soviet and anti-capitalist New Left, which emerged in response to the Soviet Union's break with Stalinism in the 1950s, would cause the Neoconservatives to split with the "liberal consensus" of the early postwar years. The original "neoconservative" theorists, such as Irving Kristol and Norman Podhoretz, were often associated with the magazine Commentary, and their intellectual evolution is quite evident in that magazine over the course of these years. Throughout the 1950s and early 1960s the early neoconservatives were anti-Communist socialists strongly supportive of the American Civil Rights Movement, integration, and Martin Luther King.



While initially, the views of the New Left became very popular among the children of hardline Communists, often Jewish immigrant families on the edge of poverty and including those of some of today's most famous neoconservative thinkers, some neoconservatives also came to despise the counterculture of the 1960s and what they felt was a growing "anti-Americanism" among many baby boomers, exemplified in the emerging New Left by the movement against the Vietnam War.

As the radicalization of the New Left pushed these intellectuals farther to the right, they moved toward a more aggressive militarism, while also becoming disillusioned with the Johnson Administration's Great Society.

Academics in these circles, many of whom were still Democrats, rebelled against the Democratic Party's leftward drift on defense issues in the 1970s, especially after the nomination of George McGovern in 1972. Many of their concerns were voiced in the influential 1970 bestseller The Real Majority by future television commentator and neo-conservative Ben Wattenberg. Many clustered around Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson, a Democrat derisively known as the "Senator from Boeing," during his 1972 and 1976 campaigns for President; but later came to align themselves with Ronald Reagan and the Republicans, who promised to confront charges of Soviet "expansionism." Among those who worked for Jackson are Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, Richard Perle and Felix Rohatyn.



etc

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by motivez

Where do you get such an idea?

Rummy, Cheney and Wolfowitz are raging liberals.

[KatKanPlay]

Originally Posted by thomez

A Business Ethics class was probably the driving force behind my idealogical re-examination and ultimate change. Pretty wild what one class worth of enlightenment can do!

Since I didnt know you back in the day,,, what about that class changed what?

[kinggovernor]

get a job hippie

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Where do you get such an idea?

that is what a neo-con is

[thomez]

Originally Posted by KatKanPlay

Since I didnt know you back in the day,,, what about that class changed what?

just basic business, basic econ ideas, a proper understanding of rights and responsibilities, contractual agreements, etc

seeing business in a different light and understanding the market and why they do what they do

went from economic liberal to economic conservative in a couple months

[thomez]

TKG and I used to argue like cats and dogs