......according to Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the drawings on Sept. 30, 2005, the suspects were planning to kill its cartoonist Kurt Westergaard. "There were very concrete murder plans against Kurt Westergaard," said Carsten Juste, the paper's editor-in-chief. PET, the police intelligence service, called the action "preventive," saying ...
02-12-2008, 01:18 PM
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| ..... your a worthless poster  Realist 
| it's illegal to *plan* to kill someone?
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02-12-2008, 01:25 PM
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| Perpetual Noob Independent
| I don't know alot about criminal law, but I think at least in the federal system, an agreement (conspiracy) to do something illegal is enough for arrest & conviction. | ||||
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02-12-2008, 01:28 PM
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| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| but they didn't *do* anything other than agree to kill the guy...where's the harm? | ||||
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02-12-2008, 01:30 PM
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| Liberty, now and forever  Libertarian Party DFW
| Originally Posted by 7960 Conspiracy to commit murder is the most they could actually be charged with I would think. Though it's certainly a fine line ... If I tell a couple of friends, "man, if George W. Bush were here I'd take my shotgun and blow his head right off!" does that make me and my friends guilty of conspiracy to commit murder? Some would say yes. 
__________________ “The sacred rights of mankind are not to be rummaged for among old parchments or musty records. They are written, as with a sunbeam, in the whole volume of human nature, by the hand of the divinity itself; and can never be erased.” --Alexander Hamilton--  | ||||
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02-12-2008, 01:31 PM
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| Perpetual Noob Independent
| Originally Posted by Publius They have to prove you actually intended to kill GW before they can get you on conspiracy.
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02-12-2008, 01:38 PM
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| Policy Wonk  Pragmatist NEIA
| It would be pretty messed up if the authorities had to wait for the guys to kill somebody before arresting them. Indisputable evidence of intent = jail time in my book. | ||||
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02-12-2008, 01:38 PM
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| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by bheld it's not "pretty messed up" to arrest someone for thinking about doing something?
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02-12-2008, 01:42 PM
| #8 | ||||
| Policy Wonk Pragmatist NEIA
| Originally Posted by 7960 It is, but somebody has already made a pretty good distinction between "thinking about something" and "planning and preparing to commit premeditated murder."
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02-12-2008, 01:43 PM
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| Friend to all.  Socialist Maryland
| Originally Posted by 7960
There's a difference between "thinking" about doing something and "planning" or "talking about" doing something. | ||||
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02-12-2008, 01:44 PM
| #10 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by bheld I said I'd like to shoot Howie on Deal or No Deal......I have a gun in my house and a car in my driveway.
I guess I'm "planning and preparing to commit premeditated murder." | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:02 PM
| #11 | ||||
| Perpetual Noob Independent
| Originally Posted by 7960 That's a little different than the situation where two people make an agreement to commit the crime.
When you have two, there exists a witness to testify about his subjective belief that the other wanted to complete the crime and also about the demeanor of the other when the agreement was made (was it said in a joking manner, or with eyes squinted like this  ) | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:18 PM
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| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| How close does someone have to get to killing someone for it to be a crime though? I mean if I say " I want to kill Jim" Thats not enough right? What if I say " I am going to kill jim" ? What if I go and buy a gun? What if I then plan out how I am going to do it. what if I then get into my car and drive to Jim's house. What if I then load the gun and get out of my car what if I then approach his house and ring the bell What if I then raise the gun and point it at him What if I cock the hammer back and once I finally pull the trigger I guess it's obvious right? But at what point in that chain would be be OK to arrest someone for intent to commit murder? | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:20 PM
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| Master Debator Election Moderator  Democrat Omaha, NE
| Originally Posted by 7960 Not really...
But if they found some other things in house to support it, say a copy of his schedule, photos you may have taken while stalking him, you know... kind of like Ray Finkles house with all the Dan Marino stuff... then yes you can be arrested before you actually do it. What a sports nut huh? Would you like a cookie son? | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:36 PM
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| no es mi culpa  Independent Beantown
| um, minority report anyone?
__________________ There is small disproportion betwixt a fool who useth not wit because he hath it not and him that useth it not when it should avail him. | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:39 PM
| #15 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by DosEquis I have posted "I'd shoot howie" on the internet and I have a gun and a car and one of these in my house
 and maybe have a few episodes of DonD on DVR......getting warmer? | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:42 PM
| #16 | ||||
| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 some would argue he's in danger as soon as you guy the gun
others would argue there's no real danger until you take the gun out of the car at his house others would say you haven't violated any of his rights as long as you miss him when you fire the gun | ||||
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02-12-2008, 02:48 PM
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| Bokonist  Independent Kansas City
| Originally Posted by 7960
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02-12-2008, 02:57 PM
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| no es mi culpa Independent Beantown
| Originally Posted by 7960 um, attempted murder?
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02-12-2008, 02:58 PM
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| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by 7960 Well those last people are stupid. So let's just leave them out.
 In this very specific case I layed out, I would probably imagine that once you drove to his house with the gun and got out of your car, the police would swoop in at that moment and arrest you. But that doesn't really answer the question. What about that particular point in the chain makes it more reasonable? I guess you have to consider several things the degree of risk that you are exposing potential victims to. What are the potential outcomes and the likely hoods of each? In my scenerio the victim really isnt at any risk untill the suspect approaches the house. So that makes it a reasonable time to intervene. You can also be fairly certain that if the suspect has reached that point that they are not turning back and that they are actually going to try and kill someone. I don't know if I can fully flesh this all out, but you see where I am going. Once you establish a set of guidelines like these you then apply them to the other situation. In the case from the news article above? Eh I dunno. If something is just in the planning stage I think that's a bit premature to actually go after someone. I would wait untill they atleast show some intent that they are going to carry out thier plans. Last edited by WickedLou9; 02-12-2008 at 03:12 PM.. | ||||
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02-12-2008, 03:04 PM
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| ..... your a worthless poster Realist
| Originally Posted by Linzyhop show the harm.
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