Bush to veto ban on waterboarding

[WickedLou9]

White House to veto Senate ban on waterboarding - Yahoo! News



WTF is there even to say about this. Bush hates America and he is trying to destroy it. Elections can not come soon enough. All of the people running right now would uphold this ban. Except for President George, "the US does not torture", Bush. What a two faced lying fuck.

[7960]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

All of the people running right now would uphold this ban.

Really?

Would Hillary Clinton Waterboard? - The Opinionator - Opinion - New York Times Blog

[motivez]

Any chance of a veto override? I didn't look at the vote tallies for the bill to begin with.

How did McCain vote? And I wonder if he'd vote to override a veto when he's looking for support from people who still like Bush

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by motivez

Any chance of a veto override? I didn't look at the vote tallies for the bill to begin with.

How did McCain vote? And I wonder if he'd vote to override a veto when he's looking for support from people who still like Bush

He voted no.


edit - the link to the NYT article won't post.

[DosEquis]

so much for the moral high ground

[thewise1]

compassionate conservatism son

[Publius]

that is disgusting.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Scrum

He voted no.


edit - the link to the NYT article won't post.

He voted not to ban it? After all that shit about torture being wrong?

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by motivez

He voted not to ban it? After all that shit about torture being wrong?

yeah. I recind what I said before about him. He's a two faced fuck too.

We need you obi-wan obama. You're our only hope!

[motivez]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

yeah. I recind what I said before about him. He's a two faced fuck too.

We need you obi-wan obama. You're our only hope!

He's so pathetically transparent. He needs the conservative vote, and apparently evangelical conservatives LOVE torture, so once again he abandons a moral principle he's held forever in an effort to win them over.

Not the first time, definitely wont be the last.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

He's so pathetically transparent. He needs the conservative vote, and apparently evangelical conservatives LOVE torture, so once again he abandons a moral principle he's held forever in an effort to win them over.

Not the first time, definitely wont be the last.

now for a little straight talk:

Army manual

In a vote that split largely along party lines, the Democratic-led Congress on Wednesday passed a bill that would restrict the CIA to using the 19 interrogation techniques outlined by the US Army field manual.

The water-boarding debate

The legislation would ban the CIA from using not only water-boarding but sensory deprivation and other harsh coercive methods on prisoners.

"There must be no doubt in the world that this great nation does not torture," said Senator Chuck Nagel, one of the bill's main sponsors.

Senator John McCain, who is the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination and who has previously brought anti-torture legislation, voted against the overall bill.

"I made it very clear that I think that water-boarding is torture and illegal, but I will not restrict the CIA to only the Army field manual," he said.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Senate limits CIA interrogation

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

now for a little straight talk:

Army manual

In a vote that split largely along party lines, the Democratic-led Congress on Wednesday passed a bill that would restrict the CIA to using the 19 interrogation techniques outlined by the US Army field manual.

The water-boarding debate

The legislation would ban the CIA from using not only water-boarding but sensory deprivation and other harsh coercive methods on prisoners.

"There must be no doubt in the world that this great nation does not torture," said Senator Chuck Nagel, one of the bill's main sponsors.

Senator John McCain, who is the front-runner for the Republican presidential nomination and who has previously brought anti-torture legislation, voted against the overall bill.

"I made it very clear that I think that water-boarding is torture and illegal, but I will not restrict the CIA to only the Army field manual," he said.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Senate limits CIA interrogation

He is just trying to get elected.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by motivez

Any chance of a veto override?

That would be the proper legal way to keep the President from Destroying the Country.

Did anyone even bother to check all the details in this Bill?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

now for a little straight talk:

Straight talk? Seriously?

He voted to allow torture, enough said.

Once again he's proven he'll flip flop on any issue to get elected, no matter how long he's crusaded in one direction, no matter how important it is to him.

That's like 11ty billion times worse than Kerry, who's "flip flop" of "I voted for it before I voted against it" could actually be explained rationally if anyone wanted to sit down for a listen about how a bill can change before a final vote.

If the Army field manual is good enough for our military, it's good enough for our other intelligence agencies who might be involved in conducting interrogations.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

That would be the proper legal way to keep the President from Destroying the Country.

He's abandoning the principles that have made America a nation to emulate and look up to on human rights by actually agreeing to allow prisoners in our custody to be tortured using a method that's been called torture for centuries, that we prosecuted Japanese soldiers for doing to Americans

It's pathetic, and it's all happening with resounding applause from people who once claimed to be the "moral majority." What a fucking joke.

[Scrum]

Here's a related opinion piece.

Arianna Huffington: John McCain Sells His Soul to the Right: Backs Off on Torture Ban - Politics on The Huffington Post

Has there ever been a more repugnant example of political pandering than John McCain's decision to vote against a bill banning waterboarding, putting hoods on prisoners, forcing them to perform sex acts, subjecting them to mock executions, or depriving them of food, water, and medical treatment?

That's right, John McCain, the former POW who has long been an outspoken critic of the Bush administration's disturbing embrace of extreme interrogation techniques.
But that was before his desperate attempt to win over the lunatic fringe that is running the Grand Old Party.

Earlier this week, I showed how outdated the image of McCain as an independent-thinking maverick had become -- and called on the media and independent voters to snap out of their 2000 reverie and see the 2008 McCain for what he has turned into: a Rove-embracing Bush clone, willing to jettison his principles in his hunger for the presidency.

And now comes this latest unconscionable capitulation, which should drive a stake through the heart of the McCain-as-straight-talker meme once and for all.

McCain the maverick had been unequivocal in his condemnation of torture, and eloquent in expressing why. "We've sent a message to the world that the United States is not like the terrorists," he said at an Oval Office appearance in December 2005, after he had forced the president to endorse an earlier torture ban McCain had authored and pushed through (a ban the president quickly subverted with a signing statement). "What we are is a nation that upholds values and standards of behavior and treatment of all people, no matter how evil or bad they are. And I think this will help us enormously in winning the war for the hearts and minds of people throughout the world in the war on terror."

He made a similar case on the campaign trail in Iowa in October 2007: "When I was imprisoned, I took heart from the fact that I knew my North Vietnamese captors would never be treated like I was treated by them. There are much better and more effective ways to get information. You torture someone long enough, he'll tell you whatever he thinks you want to know."
And there was this pithy and powerful summation of why torture should never be an option: "It's not about who they are, it's about who we are."

Of course, all that was before he put his conscience in leg irons -- and before caving to the would-be Torquemadas on the Right became his campaign strategy.

Now we get tortured logic instead. Taking to the Senate floor to justify his vote against the torture ban yesterday, McCain twisted himself in knots trying to explain how he could sponsor a bill -- the 2006 Detainee Treatment Act -- that prohibits the use of any cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment by the military while voting against a bill that would extend that ban to the CIA and other intelligence agencies: "It is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to [detain and interrogate terrorists]. At the same time the CIA's interrogation program has to abide by the rules, including the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act."
Got that? The CIA has to abide by rules prohibiting torture but we can't tie the CIA's hands by making it abide by rules prohibiting torture. Straight talk, RIP.

What's more, McCain said he voted against the bill because it would be a mistake to "tie the CIA to the Army Field Manual" -- a Manual he gave a ringing endorsement to in a November debate: "I just came back from visiting a prison in Iraq. The army general there said that techniques under the Army Field Manual are working and working effectively, and he didn't think they need to do anything else. My friends, this is what America is all about."

But not apparently once you have the White House in your sights. Then all bets -- and deeply held convictions -- are off.

The media and independent voters need to stop offering McCain valentines, and start interrogating him -- humanely, of course -- about the Faustian bargain he has struck.

[thomez]

McCain is such a fucking joke

[SoFlaJDM]

he's a tool... plain and simple

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by motivez

Straight talk? Seriously?

He voted to allow torture, enough said.

Once again he's proven he'll flip flop on any issue to get elected, no matter how long he's crusaded in one direction, no matter how important it is to him.

That's like 11ty billion times worse than Kerry, who's "flip flop" of "I voted for it before I voted against it" could actually be explained rationally if anyone wanted to sit down for a listen about how a bill can change before a final vote.

If the Army field manual is good enough for our military, it's good enough for our other intelligence agencies who might be involved in conducting interrogations.

so if you agree with part of a bill but not another part that is flip flopping? Using your definition it would flip flopping either way because it would focus McCain to change his opinion on at least one issue.

He explained his view in 10 seconds, I am against waterboarding but I think the bill is too restrictive.

Here is what McCain said on the Senate floor:
"It was not my intent to eliminate the CIA interrogation program, but rather to ensure that the techniques it employs are humane and do not include such extreme techniques as waterboarding. I said on the Senate floor during the debate over the Military Commissions Act, 'Let me state this flatly: it was never our purpose to prevent the CIA from detaining and interrogating terrorists. On the contrary, it is important to the war on terror that the CIA have the ability to do so. At the same time, the CIA’s interrogation program has to abide by the rules, including the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act.'"

McCain argued that when the Congress voted to apply the Army "Field Manual to the Department of Defense, it deliberately excluded the CIA. The Field Manual, a public document written for military use, is not always directly translatable to use by intelligence officers. In view of this, the legislation allowed the CIA to retain the capacity to employ alternative interrogation techniques. I’d emphasize that the DTA permits the CIA to use different techniques than the military employs, but that it is not intended to permit the CIA to use unduly coercive techniques

indeed, the same act prohibits the use of any cruel, inhumane, or degrading treatment."

"What we need is not to tie the CIA to the Army Field Manual, " McCain said, "but rather to have a good faith interpretation of the statutes that guide what is permissible in the CIA program."