Brainless or Heartless

nbiggershaft · 02-14-2008, 11:35 PM

So I don't remember who said it, but there is a famous saying that anyone under 30 who isn't a liberal is heartless and anyone over 30 that isn't a conservative is brainless. (i am contradicting myself from another thread now)

Well I am nearing my college graduation and chances are I will probably be making a decent sum of money soon. Not saying I am anything special but my field and education generally starts 50-60 and gets to 100 k pretty fast.

Stay with me here.

I have also found myself becoming more and more skeptical of my generally democrat upbringing. Thats not to say I am anywhere near supporting republicans(I believe in evolution and don't think gays are an abomination), but that I have found myself, lets saying slowly, shifty towards the realm of..... dare I say, libertarianism. I will make sturdy arguments against anarchist capitalism, but I have found myself believing my own words less and less.

Now here is my question, am I truly shifting slowly in my beliefs because I really believe them. Or, am I a product of my financial situation. Do I sense myself becoming part of... I don't know, upper middle class and could I be subconsiously changing my views accordingly based off greed or arrogance?

(btw, still support social health care

)

Linzyhop · 02-15-2008, 08:45 AM

maybe you're just seeing the opposite side of the spectrum. perhaps your situation allows you to see both sides equally now. who knows. environments are constantly changing but generally speaking the lower middle class is almost exclusively democratic.

David Octavius · 02-15-2008, 10:40 AM

I think it was Churchill who said it...

My view is that if a person exclusively believes in one ideology they are both heartless and brainless.

BTW..John Adam, Benjamin Franklyn, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington et all were all over 30 when they founded a very liberal government for its time, so there goes that saying

Roonie · 02-15-2008, 02:46 PM

You can be whatever you want to be. I make easily into the six figures and I am still very liberal in a lot of my beliefs. All my friends that I hang around with (group of 7) make the same amount with one of them upwards of 500k a year and we all heavily lean towards Obama right now. Also we are all 34.

David Octavius · 02-15-2008, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

You can be whatever you want to be. I make easily into the six figures and I am still very liberal in a lot of my beliefs. All my friends that I hang around with (group of 7) make the same amount with one of them upwards of 500k a year and we all heavily lean towards Obama right now. Also we are all 34.

Any of them single women ???

Roonie · 02-15-2008, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Any of them single women ???

No.....

Dylith · 02-15-2008, 03:11 PM

It was actually the upper class that founded the New Left movement in the 60's and the middle class that polarized and became today's conservatives, along with the neoliberals created due to the New Deal era.

I've heard that saying as well, but I don't really put much faith in it. I actually think that the United States citizen is, in general, much more moderate than we assume. Our parties have really polarized and now voters are left with these two extremes to vote for and it really has become for many a "lesser of two evils" sort of ordeal.

David Octavius · 02-15-2008, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

No.....

C'mon! I'm just at the 6 figure mark so I wont be just eye candy for them

Roonie · 02-16-2008, 10:18 AM

Personally I see the opposite. Most well off folks I meet personally lean democrat or moderate. The right leaners usually are the redneck hand me down repubs. Go to any motorcycle/snowmobile/ATV/off-road site and they are all Bush lovers to the extreme. They love the war and criticizing it in any way (or the prez) makes you unpatriotic and a traitor to the country. They love the right wing talk radio crap that spews out all the hate towards anything different then right wing. These folks are usually doing the blue collar jobs and scraping by making a living nothing fancy.

I have also seen a lot of folks doing personal attacks and calling folks names like ignorant etc usually are right leaning on the other web sites I visit when anything political comes up. The most hateful speech and crap starts to spew forth on anyone not claiming to be a repub and most dems I see rarely counter it. The Liberty lounge may be the only exception to this phenomenon.

If we look back to the last election the majority voted democrat. Also if you counted all the green party votes it would have tipped the scales by a much bigger margin. When it comes down to it the two parties are very similar in a lot of ways but different in other areas.

nbiggershaft · 02-16-2008, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

Personally I see the opposite. Most well off folks I meet personally lean democrat or moderate. The right leaners usually are the redneck hand me down repubs. Go to any motorcycle/snowmobile/ATV/off-road site and they are all Bush lovers to the extreme. They love the war and criticizing it in any way (or the prez) makes you unpatriotic and a traitor to the country. They love the right wing talk radio crap that spews out all the hate towards anything different then right wing. These folks are usually doing the blue collar jobs and scraping by making a living nothing fancy.

I have also seen a lot of folks doing personal attacks and calling folks names like ignorant etc usually are right leaning on the other web sites I visit when anything political comes up. The most hateful speech and crap starts to spew forth on anyone not claiming to be a repub and most dems I see rarely counter it. The Liberty lounge may be the only exception to this phenomenon.

If we look back to the last election the majority voted democrat. Also if you counted all the green party votes it would have tipped the scales by a much bigger margin. When it comes down to it the two parties are very similar in a lot of ways but different in other areas.

I'm not really referring to growing richer/older and becoming republicans or social conservatism. But to becoming more Laissez Fair and lowering taxes/the role of the government.

Roonie · 02-17-2008, 10:02 AM

I am all for reducing government but taxes are a necessary evil to pay for everything we need and use. Reduce the size of government and reduce the tax load.

Also don't go into a senseless war with no clear exit strategy and end up fighting a civil war costing trillions of dollars in the name of WMD's/terrorism/oil/whatever you want to call it.

Stylerod · 02-18-2008, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Roonie

Personally I see the opposite. Most well off folks I meet personally lean democrat or moderate. The right leaners usually are the redneck hand me down repubs. Go to any motorcycle/snowmobile/ATV/off-road site and they are all Bush lovers to the extreme. They love the war and criticizing it in any way (or the prez) makes you unpatriotic and a traitor to the country. They love the right wing talk radio crap that spews out all the hate towards anything different then right wing. These folks are usually doing the blue collar jobs and scraping by making a living nothing fancy.

I have also seen a lot of folks doing personal attacks and calling folks names like ignorant etc usually are right leaning on the other web sites I visit when anything political comes up. The most hateful speech and crap starts to spew forth on anyone not claiming to be a repub and most dems I see rarely counter it. The Liberty lounge may be the only exception to this phenomenon.

If we look back to the last election the majority voted democrat. Also if you counted all the green party votes it would have tipped the scales by a much bigger margin. When it comes down to it the two parties are very similar in a lot of ways but different in other areas.

Oh the ironing.....

thomez · 02-18-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Roonie

Personally I see the opposite. Most well off folks I meet personally lean democrat or moderate. The right leaners usually are the redneck hand me down repubs. Go to any motorcycle/snowmobile/ATV/off-road site and they are all Bush lovers to the extreme. They love the war and criticizing it in any way (or the prez) makes you unpatriotic and a traitor to the country.

orly?

DosEquis · 02-18-2008, 04:56 PM

I have found the current republicans one of two things:

1. They vote republican because they always have and do not read

2. They read, but swallow what they consider the lesser of two evil pill.

Linzyhop · 02-18-2008, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by DosEquis

I have found the current republicans one of two things:

1. They vote republican because they always have and do not read

2. They read, but swallow what they consider the lesser of two evil pill.

wouldn't that go for the majority of democrats as well though?

Jas0n · 02-19-2008, 01:49 PM

You should probably do some serious thinking about what's fundamental to human nature, what constitutes reality, and where we get our ideas about morality. Politics is a branch of philosophy, and as such it would seem ridiculous to adopt a political position that isn't consistent with your understanding of ethics or of epistemology...

nbiggershaft · 02-19-2008, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jas0n

You should probably do some serious thinking about what's fundamental to human nature, what constitutes reality, and where we get our ideas about morality. Politics is a branch of philosophy, and as such it would seem ridiculous to adopt a political position that isn't consistent with your understanding of ethics or of epistemology...

I'll read between the lines here and take it you are objecting to my use of the term greed.

Jas0n · 02-20-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by nbiggershaft

I'll read between the lines here and take it you are objecting to my use of the term greed.

Hah! Not necessarily. But then again, I don't think there's anything at all wrong with greed. I really meant that it might do you some good to read some material that might help to either flesh out your thoughts or change your mind somehow.

7960 · 02-28-2008, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

wouldn't that go for the majority of democrats as well though?

yes.

every post in this thread that refers to dems or republicans can be global-search-replace one for the other and still hold true.

Linzyhop · 02-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

yes.

every post in this thread that refers to dems or republicans can be global-search-replace one for the other and still hold true.

thats what i figured.