Does anyone else ever feel guilty about the benefits they were raised with?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

Originally Posted by Jas0n

Right, because one of the fundamental tenets of Capitalism is that you should feel guilty for being successful and not sharing.
There's nothing wrong with charity, but no-one who accepts Capitalism philosophically would dare say that a person should feel guilty for not having given away that which is rightfully his.

We're not talking about the fundamental tenets of capitalism. We're talking about one individual who said he feels guilty for what he's been given but didn't work for. The way I read it gene 430 is saying he should be giving back to relieve his guilt. There's nothing inconsistent with charity and capitalism.

I don't think he's saying give back to relieve the guilt, I think he said to feel guilty about what he hasn't given back already.

[gene430]

Originally Posted by Jas0n

The word "Capitalist" does not belong in your profile if you think that A_C_E should feel guilty for not having given.

A_C_E: you shouldn't feel guilty. For one thing, it won't do any good. For another far more important reason, you haven't done anything wrong. If you feel guilty, it should be because you've sinned or broken the rules somehow. What have you done wrong? Hint:been raised by a competent mother doesn't count.

Naturally I'm inclined to think that you feel guilt because you actually subscribe to the altruist/collectivist morality which would insist that you're basically a bad person for having more than other people have, since you aren't supposed to enjoy anything for your own sake anyway.

Oh you poor misguided soul.....please let me explain my philosophy regarding capitalism. As a capitalists, I believe I should be free to make or earn as much money as my talents and the market will allow. What I do with that money should be my decision. I happen to believe that the most effective charity is the charity run by capitalists versus governmental beuracrats.

Take Bill Gates for example. My being personally involved in his foundation, he and his wife are ensuring they get a lot of "bang for his buck" with the Gates Foundation. This is the type of charity giving we need, not just a check, but a check followed by involvement.

A true capitalists, I believe, will not only give, but will want to make sure his money is used wisely....this is a good thing.

A government agency sees charity as a handout and control, in other words, feeding the poor......vs .....a capitalists will want to help by teaching the poor to fish and feed themselves.

One is a solution, the other a band aid and control.

[thewise1]

Not in the slightest. It was earned, not by me, but that's not relevant in parent/child situations - considering the parents chose to have me, they also chose to take on the responsibility of providing for me until I could do so for myself.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

I don't know how anyone else feels about this, but there are times when, in my life, I simply can't help but feel guilty about the advantages I had growing up. I was born to a solidly upper-middle class family, and though I had a single mother, my mom makes good money working for the government and I don't have any siblings. As such, I had a lot of benefits growing up...full health and dental care, the best schools money could buy, a big house, a car, vacations twice a year, weekends skiing, camping, playing golf or waterskiing. I never had to worry about having good food to eat, and in fact had the distinct pleasure of eating dinner in nice restaurants 2-3 times a week.

Through my mom's income (dad is a great guy but always broke), I was able to go to the best private high school in Buffalo, and here I sit, behind my desk at work, the hallowed Ivy-covered walls of the Ancient Eight rising all around me. Sure, I get ~26K/yr in financial aid, but I still go to a University which costs 48,000/yr. I have a nicely-furnished apartment which would be the envy of any poor family, a girlfriend whom I take out for dinner to nice restaurants, take weekend junkets to New York or DC. I think it's fair to say that I pretty much have the life.

And yet, I find that I can't help but feel guilty about it. I ride the subway through Philly a few times a week, and every day I see people working as hard as they can but just going nowhere. Single moms with deadbeat ex-husbands who work 3 or 3 jobs to pay the bills, and still never have enough food to put on the table. I think about all those kids growing up just 5 blocks west on Spruce from my apartment, who go to horrible public schools and have parents who will never put enough food on the table for them. No cars, no vacations, no cool toys, and no prospects. Kids who think college is a dream, not a reality...that the 268-year-old University down the street represents not only a different lifestyle, it represents a world that they can simply never dream of living in, through no fault of their own. These young people and their parents work hard...most of the time far harder than I have to, yet their lives are simply stuck in neutral, every day simply a replica of the last, a paycheck-to-paycheck life which will only end in misery, pain, and an early death.

And I ask myself, what have I done to deserve what I've been given? What makes me any more worthy than that young kid a mile down the street, playing basketball in an old school courtyard, with a deflated ball, a pair of ratty old sneakers, and grass growing through the cracks in the fractured asphalt. That kid who maybe can't read until he's 7 years old, because his teachers suck, and is scared stiff of getting beaten up and robbed by older boys? What did that young boy do to deserve his life, and, perhaps more troubling, what did I do to deserve mine? Why should I get to live such a dream lifestyle, possibly the envy of every other 20-year-old not born into a super-rich family? Because I got lucky and was born to a good mother? What sort of justification is that? I get to live like a prince because of something my mother did, not by my own merit. So what, in the end, makes me any more deserving of my life than anyone else?

I tend to grapple with this a lot. As much as I want to convince myself that life isn't fair, that this is simply the way things are, I just can't NOT feel guilty about my situation. I wish I could overcome it, but I can't.

All that being said, I am incredibly grateful for the opportunities I have been given. If there is a god, then I have truly been blessed by him. If not, I suppose a degree of god-like praise should go to my mother, who made it all possible for me.

That was a lot, I'll admit. So, uhhh......anyone else have any feelings on this?

(Mods, you can move this somewhere if you want)

I'm curious what you produce with all that wealth and opportunity. Not an attack, just a question. Perhaps that is the root of your guilt.

[Publius]

I didn't have a lot growing up. I certainly never went without and there were plenty of people MUCH worse off than me, but as I've gotten old enough to recognize it I've seen that my parents made huge sacrifices to make sure I was always well taken care of. I rarely had the best of anything, but I also never had the worst of anything.

Everything I've done in my life education wise was on the strength of my genetics and my upbringing (parents emphasized the importance of education and took to educating me early in life ... I could read and write well before kindergarten, for example), the only reason I've been able to go to college is on academic scholarships. My parents certainly don't have the money to pay for school, they never have.

Additionally, I've had to overcome plenty of challenges related to my disability (erb's palsy) all by myself, so I feel zero guilt.

Nor should I.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Publius

Additionally, I've had to overcome plenty of challenges related to my disability (erb's palsy) all by myself, so I feel zero guilt.

I don't want to single you out but since you mentioned a disability..........OP, do you feel guilty that you were born healthy and pubicus was born with a disability? The exact same argument as "born with means" applies.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by gene430

Originally Posted by Jas0n

The word "Capitalist" does not belong in your profile if you think that A_C_E should feel guilty for not having given.

A_C_E: you shouldn't feel guilty. For one thing, it won't do any good. For another far more important reason, you haven't done anything wrong. If you feel guilty, it should be because you've sinned or broken the rules somehow. What have you done wrong? Hint:been raised by a competent mother doesn't count.

Naturally I'm inclined to think that you feel guilt because you actually subscribe to the altruist/collectivist morality which would insist that you're basically a bad person for having more than other people have, since you aren't supposed to enjoy anything for your own sake anyway.

Oh you poor misguided soul.....please let me explain my philosophy regarding capitalism. As a capitalists, I believe I should be free to make or earn as much money as my talents and the market will allow. What I do with that money should be my decision. I happen to believe that the most effective charity is the charity run by capitalists versus governmental beuracrats.

Take Bill Gates for example. My being personally involved in his foundation, he and his wife are ensuring they get a lot of "bang for his buck" with the Gates Foundation. This is the type of charity giving we need, not just a check, but a check followed by involvement.

A true capitalists, I believe, will not only give, but will want to make sure his money is used wisely....this is a good thing.

A government agency sees charity as a handout and control, in other words, feeding the poor......vs .....a capitalists will want to help by teaching the poor to fish and feed themselves.

One is a solution, the other a band aid and control.

I don't think he'd disagree with any of that, at least judging by his response.

I think his disagreement with you is that he should feel guilty for what he has, and for not giving away some of what he has.. not that he shouldn't give away some of it if that's what he feels like doing with it.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm curious what you produce with all that wealth and opportunity. Not an attack, just a question. Perhaps that is the root of your guilt.

Well, nothing yet, as I am still in college.

Odds are I'll wind up living a long and successful life though, if the odds hold as they should. I'd like to work in Finance for a while, build up some money in the bank, and then hopefully get in to politics down the line

You are correct, though, in that as of yet, my opportunities growing up have produced no truly tangible result. There's no guarantee I will have a successful life upon graduating from college, it's just very likely

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Well, nothing yet, as I am still in college.

Odds are I'll wind up living a long and successful life though, if the odds hold as they should. I'd like to work in Finance for a while, build up some money in the bank, and then hopefully get in to politics down the line

You are correct, though, in that as of yet, my opportunities growing up have produced no truly tangible result. There's no guarantee I will have a successful life upon graduating from college, it's just very likely

Is this an advertisement for yourself, or true reflection?

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

I don't want to single you out but since you mentioned a disability..........OP, do you feel guilty that you were born healthy and pubicus was born with a disability? The exact same argument as "born with means" applies.

Yea, I do, a bit. I mean, what did Pubes do to deserve being born with a disability? Why should he be handicapped and my not? It's difficult to grapple with.

Though I don't really know what to feel about this situation...Pubes' disability was a genetic and medical error; there was nothing anyone could really do about it (barring the doctor who tried to fix it not fucking up). A problem that can be helped versus one which really cannot be I do not considered to be the very same thing.

I don't know, it's confusing

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Is this an advertisement for yourself, or true reflection?

I don't really understand what you mean...

Perhaps you could elaborate?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Yea, I do, a bit. I mean, what did Pubes do to deserve being born with a disability? Why should he be handicapped and my not? It's difficult to grapple with.

Though I don't really know what to feel about this situation...Pubes' disability was a genetic and medical error; there was nothing anyone could really do about it (barring the doctor who tried to fix it not fucking up). A problem that can be helped versus one which really cannot be I do not considered to be the very same thing.

I don't know, it's confusing

My disability has nothing to do with genetics, just fyi. It was purely doctor malpractice, a physical injury with no genetic bearing. It could just as easily have happened to you or 7960 or motivez or Bill Clinton or anyone else, it's all in the doctor.

And you shouldn't feel guilty, that's retarded. You have as much control over what the doctor that birthed me did as you had control over who your parents are. If you feel guilt over something completely beyond your control, you'll feel guilty for so much stuff all the time that you're likely to kill yourself out of depression.

THAT is when you should feel guilty, because suicide is one of the most selfish things a person can do. It takes all that time and money invested in your life by so many (parents, teachers, etc.) and flushes it all down the toilet.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Publius

My disability has nothing to do with genetics, just fyi. It was purely doctor malpractice, a physical injury with no genetic bearing. It could just as easily have happened to you or 7960 or motivez or Bill Clinton or anyone else, it's all in the doctor.

And you shouldn't feel guilty, that's retarded. You have as much control over what the doctor that birthed me did as you had control over who your parents are. If you feel guilt over something completely beyond your control, you'll feel guilty for so much stuff all the time that you're likely to kill yourself out of depression.

THAT is when you should feel guilty, because suicide is one of the most selfish things a person can do. It takes all that time and money invested in your life by so many (parents, teachers, etc.) and flushes it all down the toilet.

This isn't to say that I spend my time wallowing in all the "bad" things in the world...trust me, I do not. However, it just seems, I don't know.....unfair that some people are given so much WITHOUT having to work for it, and some people work so hard and yet have so little.

I know no one ever said life had to be fair, but it doesn't mean that we can't still recognize the situation as it is.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

I don't really understand what you mean...

Perhaps you could elaborate?

Nevermind it. Your guilt makes no logical sense, though. I don't know what else to say. If you want to ignore logic and just examine feelings then I'm definitely not your guy; feelings are not going to fix this perceived inequity, nor can they cause those who choose not to produce to actually produce.

By the way, I disagree that there is even an unfair inequity involved here.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

This isn't to say that I spend my time wallowing in all the "bad" things in the world...trust me, I do not. However, it just seems, I don't know.....unfair that some people are given so much WITHOUT having to work for it, and some people work so hard and yet have so little.

Is it unfair that a man can try to build a barn in the countryside that needs a 4' foundation, and it takes him a year to dig out this foundation hole for the barn, but the guy on the farm next door rents a bulldozer and has it done in 4 hours?

Lots of people are hard workers, but they need to also be smart workers.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by thewise1

By the way, I disagree that there is even an unfair inequity involved here.

oh?

Go on, I'm intrigued

[7960]

I'm rearranging your post a bit

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Though I don't really know what to feel about this situation...Pubes' disability was a genetic and medical error; there was nothing anyone could really do about it (barring the doctor who tried to fix it not fucking up).

You mean exactly like how you had no choice who you were born to? He didn't choose a handicap, you didn't choose your situation.......same/same.

A problem that can be helped versus one which really cannot be I do not considered to be the very same thing.

I don't understand. He could not change his situation. You could not change yours. They're the same.

what did Pubes do to deserve being born with a disability?

Nothing.

Why should he be handicapped and my not? It's difficult to grapple with.

The answer to your questions is "because that's how it is." Nobody asked for their parents. Nobody asked to be sick, or healthy for that matter. It's just how it is. You can feel guilty if you want but you're just wasting energy.

[A_C_E]

Also, wise1, you really need to get over this bullshit belief that those who do not have means are in their position because they "choose not to produce."

<