Go Back   The Liberty Lounge Political Forums > Liberty Lounge Discussions > Election 2008

Political Forum Click HERE to register your free account and become a member of our community today!
Register to Post a Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-18-2008, 03:29 PM   #1
Noob
 
Ironduke's Avatar

Republican
Minneapolis
Ironduke has political potential

Obama Bribes Superdelegates

Looks like Obama's leading by nearly four to one. A half-billion in earmarks in 2007 alone, now this. How much John McCain has paid in bribes to Republican delegates? The same amount he's received in earmarks in his Senate career, a big fat ZERO.

McCain will get a HUGE amount of mileage out of this.

If anybody minds telling me how this isn't BRIBERY, I'm ALL EARS.

Keep doling out that money, Barack. Can't wait till you pass the million-dollar mark.
Bribery, which is synonymous with corruption, is an act implying money or gift given that alters the behavior of the person in ways not consistent with the duties of that person. Bribery constitutes a crime and is defined by Black's Law Dictionary as the offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of any item of value to influence the actions of an official or other person in discharge of a public or legal duty. The bribe is the gift bestowed to influence the receiver's conduct. It may be any money, good, right in action, property, preferment, privilege, emolument, object of value, advantage, or any promise or undertaking to induce or influence the action, vote, or influence of a person in an official or public capacity.

Bribery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Superdelegates get campaign cash

Many of the superdelegates who could well decide the Democratic presidential nominee have already been plied with campaign contributions by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, a new study shows.

"While it would be unseemly for the candidates to hand out thousands of dollars to primary voters, or to the delegates pledged to represent the will of those voters, elected officials serving as superdelegates have received about $890,000 from Obama and Clinton in the form of campaign contributions over the last three years," the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics reported today.

About half the 800 superdelegates -- elected officials, party leaders, and others -- have committed to either Clinton or Obama, though they can change their minds until the convention.

Obama's political action committee has doled out more than $694,000 to superdelegates since 2005, the study found, and of the 81 who had announced their support for Obama, 34 had received donations totaling $228,000.

Clinton's political action committee has distributed about $195,000 to superdelegates, and only 13 of the 109 who had announced for her have received money, totaling about $95,000.
Superdelegates get campaign cash - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com

From the Buckeyestate Blog:
Only 12% of Clinton's currently committed superdelegates have received any campaign donations from Clinton since 2005; to Obama's 43%.

Between the two candidates, Obama is resposible for making nearly $700k of the $900k donations to super delegates.

So, the next time anyone says that Hillary is trying to "steal" the election by winning it through the superdelegates, remember this. Obama has been spending three times the amount Clinton has in winning over the superdelegates which are going to be necessary for either candidate to secure the nomination.
Obama is spending the $$$ to get the superdelegates | Buckeye State Blog
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-18-2008, 03:30 PM   #2
Noob
 
Ironduke's Avatar

Republican
Minneapolis
Ironduke has political potential

Seeking Superdelegates

As the Democratic Party's superdelegates decide whether to support Clinton or Obama, will they take into account the $904,200 they've received from the candidates?

By Lindsay Renick Mayer

February 14, 2008 | At this summer's Democratic National Convention, nearly 800 members of Congress, state governors and Democratic Party leaders could be the tiebreakers in the intense contest between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. If neither candidate can earn the support of at least 2,025 delegates in the primary voting process, the decision of who will represent the Democrats in November's presidential election will fall not to the will of the people but to these "superdelegates"—the candidates' friends, colleagues and even financial beneficiaries. Both contenders will be calling in favors.

And while it would be unseemly for the candidates to hand out thousands of dollars to primary voters, or to the delegates pledged to represent the will of those voters, elected officials who are superdelegates have received at least $904,200 from Obama and Clinton in the form of campaign contributions over the last three years, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Obama, who narrowly leads in the count of pledged, "non-super" delegates, has doled out more than $698,200 to superdelegates from his political action committee, Hope Fund, or campaign committee since 2005. Of the 82 elected officials who had announced as of Feb. 12 that their superdelegate votes would go to the Illinois senator, 35, or 43 percent of this group, have received campaign contributions from him in the 2006 or 2008 election cycles, totaling $232,200. In addition, Obama has been endorsed by 52 superdelegates who haven't held elected office recently and, therefore, didn't receive campaign contributions from him.

Clinton does not appear to have been as openhanded. Her PAC, HILLPAC, and campaign committee appear to have distributed $205,500 to superdelegates. Only 12 percent of her elected superdelegates, or 13 of 109 who have said they will back her, have received campaign contributions, totaling about $95,000 since 2005. An additional 128 unelected superdelegates support Clinton, according to a blog tracking superdelegates and their endorsements, 2008 Democratic Convention Watch.

Because superdelegates will make up around 20 percent of 4,000 delegates to the Democratic convention in August--Republicans don't have superdelegates—Clinton and Obama are aggressively wooing the more than 400 superdelegates who haven't yet made up their minds. Since 2005 Obama has given 52 of the undecided superdelegates a total of at least $363,900, while Clinton has given a total of $88,000 to 15 of them. Anticipating that their intense competition for votes in state primaries and caucuses will result in a near-tie going into the nominating convention, the two candidates are making personal calls to superdelegates now, or are recruiting other big names to do so on their behalf. With no specific rules about what can and can't be done to court these delegates, just about anything goes.

"Only the limits of human creativity could restrict the ways in which Obama and Clinton will try to be helpful to superdelegates," said Larry Sabato, a political scientist at the University of Virginia. "My guess is that if the nomination actually depends on superdelegates, the unwritten rule may be, 'ask and ye shall receive.' "

Superdelegates will make their decisions based on a number of factors, said Richard Herrera, a political scientist at Arizona State University. Some have long-time political and personal ties to Clinton or Obama, some will support the candidate they think is more likely to beat the Republican nominee and others will commit to the candidate who won their state's support. Deciding whom to support based entirely on contributions from the candidates would be a political liability, Herrera said.

"I think Democrats, both regular delegates and superdelegates, see this year as an opportunity to really take back the White House," he said, "and I don't think there's that short-term political concern that money will play that kind of role. It's a much bigger picture at this point."

The superdelegates themselves say the same thing—that any money flowing from the presidential candidates to the delegates' own campaigns hasn't had any sort of influence on their decisions. Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell received $5,000 from Clinton in the 2006 election cycle and has endorsed her, while he hasn't received anything from Obama, campaign finance records indicate. Policy and a personal relationship with the Clintons, not money, swung his vote into her camp, according to spokesman Chuck Ardo. "The governor has known Mrs. Clinton for 15 years and has certainly had a close relationship with President Clinton as well," Ardo said. "I think those are the factors that are really more relevant, especially given the small fraction of his fundraising that Clinton's contributions made. It'd be ludicrous to tie that contribution to his support."

Yet the Center for Responsive Politics has found that campaign contributions have been a generally reliable predictor of whose side a superdelegate will take. In cases where superdelegates had received contributions from both Clinton and Obama, seven out of eight elected officials who received more money from Clinton have committed to her. The one exception: Sen. Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts, whose endorsement of Obama was highly publicized, received more from Clinton than from the Illinois senator--$10,000 compared to $4,200. Thirty-four of the 43 superdelegates who received more money from Obama, or 79 percent, are backing him. In every case the Center found in which superdelegates received money from one candidate but not the other, the superdelegate is backing the candidate who gave them money. Four superdelegates who have already pledged received the same amount of contributions from both Clinton and Obama—and all committed to Clinton.

In addition to Gov. Rendell of Pennsylvania, at least two other governors who have endorsed Clinton have also received contributions from her in the past. Ohio's Gov. Ted Strickland received $10,000 and Oregon's Gov. Ted Kulongoski received $5,000. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who dropped out of the presidential race in January, has not endorsed a candidate but received $5,000 from Clinton in the 2006 election cycle.

The money that Clinton and Obama have contributed to the superdelegates who may now determine their fate has come from three sources: the candidates' campaign accounts for president and, before that, Senate, and from their leadership PACs. These PACs exist precisely to support other politicians in their elections—and, thus, to make friends and collect chits. Leadership PACs are supposed to go dormant after a presidential candidate officially enters the race.

Contributions to candidates for federal office are relatively easy to track, but money given to state and local officials is harder to spot. Campaign finance reports from Senate candidate committees are still filed on paper, making it difficult to know who is receiving money from them. For that reason it's possible that Obama and Clinton have given superdelegates even more than the $904,200 the Center for Responsive Politics has identified. While Obama has received the support of numerous state governors, state legislators and local officials, it does not appear that his leadership PAC or presidential candidate committee has contributed to any of them. His PAC did make one interesting contribution in 2006: for her Senate re-election, Hillary Clinton received a $4,200 contribution from Obama.

Another senator running for office in 2006, Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island, collected $10,000 from both Clinton and Obama. As a superdelegate, Whitehouse is backing Clinton for the White House. "His decision was based on his relationship with the Clintons. President Clinton nominated him to be United States attorney in 1994, in Rhode Island, and he believes Sen. Clinton is the strongest candidate," said spokeswoman Alex Swartsel, adding that money wasn't a factor in Whitehouse's decision. "We were a top targeted Senate race in 2006 and we received a number of contributions, including those from Clinton and Obama."

Though it might seem undemocratic to allow elected officials who have received money from the candidates to have such power in picking their party's nominee, the process was not meant to be democratic, Arizona State's Herrera said. "If anything, it was meant to take it out of the democratic process. In 1982 [the party] said they needed to have some professionals making decisions here to blunt the potential effects of what they perceived as amateur delegates making decisions—those who vote with their heart and not their head."
Capital Eye - Seeking Superdelegates
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-18-2008, 03:45 PM   #3
Master Debator
Election Moderator
 
DosEquis's Avatar

Democrat
Omaha, NE
DosEquis Has a place in history!DosEquis Has a place in history!DosEquis Has a place in history!

this won't get any traction for a few reasons... they both gave money, its giving money to other democrats for things like them getting elected or staying in office, and it can be dismissed as coincidence and speculation.

He happened to give more money than she did, but he has also been raising a ton while shes had fiscal issues.

Do they happen to support him? Sure, but at the same time you could argue that he would only give money to those who support him anyway.

Is the practice shady? Yes, but that brings up a whole seperate debate in my opinion, and that is going to be about money in politics and how money skews who gets elected and what they represent in govt.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-18-2008, 04:09 PM   #4
Political Genius
 
RMNIXON's Avatar

Republican
Yorba Linda Ca.
RMNIXON has a spectacular aura about them

Dick Morris see a very different problem. The simple fact is a number of these Super Delegates are up for re-election in 2008. That means if they look like they screwed Obama out of a fair popular vote nomination to back the Hillary Machinery they could risk a serious backlash at the polls! That is a much bigger motivation than whatever money Obama gave them.


If you aks me who will get this nomination I would toss a coin!

I think it would be very bad for Democrats if they look like they are showing Obama the door in order to give Hillary the Coronation. But nobody planned or predicted this mess, so I can't say it won't happen.

We are actaully talking about a Primary in late February in Wisconsin!

__________________
Sock It To Me!

"Bureaucracy is a Parasite that Preys on Free Thought and Suffocates Free Spirit!"

- Douglas Adams
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-18-2008, 04:14 PM   #5
Noob
 
Ironduke's Avatar

Republican
Minneapolis
Ironduke has political potential

Originally Posted by DosEquis View Post
this won't get any traction for a few reasons... they both gave money, its giving money to other democrats for things like them getting elected or staying in office, and it can be dismissed as coincidence and speculation.

He happened to give more money than she did, but he has also been raising a ton while shes had fiscal issues.

Do they happen to support him? Sure, but at the same time you could argue that he would only give money to those who support him anyway.

Is the practice shady? Yes, but that brings up a whole seperate debate in my opinion, and that is going to be about money in politics and how money skews who gets elected and what they represent in govt.
It won't get any traction for Hillary Clinton, because, as you accurately said, they BOTH gave money. But who did NOT give money. John McCain.
In every case the Center found in which superdelegates received money from one candidate but not the other, the superdelegate is backing the candidate who gave them money.
Clearly NOT coincidence. Obama is not going to be able to sidestep this charge, and it will be used to great effect.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-18-2008, 04:17 PM   #6
America Fuck Yea
Election Moderator
 
kinggovernor's Avatar

Republican In Name Only
kinggovernor is a jewel in the rough

I don't see the democratic party allowing Superdelegates to decide their nomination, it would ensure that they lose the election.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Old 02-19-2008, 01:44 PM   #7
Dirty Liberal
 
WickedLou9's Avatar

Democrat
South Jersey
WickedLou9 is the Vice President!WickedLou9 is the Vice President!

It looks to me like the entire "super-delegate" process should be deep sixed. It's a bad process all around. It takes the decision out of the hands of our electorate, it is prime territory for corruption, like this sort of so-called bribery that goes on. They should just get rid of it all together. It's a massive liability.
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Stumble Upon this Post!
Register to Reply to This Post
Register to Post a Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
superdelegates, obama, bribes

Go Back   The Liberty Lounge Political Forums > Liberty Lounge Discussions > Election 2008



Thread Tools



SEO by vBSEO

vBulletin 3.7.2 -- Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Custom Artwork and Theme (TM) 2006, Liberty Lounge