Medical, socialized medicine...etc etc etc... - Page 4

thomez · 09-11-2006, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by motivez

being able to organize against state run companies and conditions

they will not have that ability in state owned corporations because they have an excess of labor which provides no problem finding replacements to fill those mostly low-skill positions

their path to empowerment is the same as it is here, however, and they are increasingly doing it = education

luckily we currently have decent education systems (which need improvement, like NOW!) and 5% unemployment - the path to worker empowerment

thomez · 09-11-2006, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

While I do agree with you, the problem is that these people have kids they can't afford to pay for anyway. It's not like they will suddenly decide to have more babies since they won't have to pay for healthcare. People like that don't care about it and get free care anyways.

I doubt many people would have children they couldn't support if they 1) had access to affordable contraceptives and 2) thought those children may starve to death

once again our institutions provide the means to create another problem, so we create another institution to combat it - the same Pop 'em Up game we play in Iraq

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

I doubt many people would have children they couldn't support if they 1) had access to affordable contraceptives and 2) thought those children may starve to death

once again our institutions provide the means to create another problem, so we create another institution to combat it - the same Pop 'em Up game we play in Iraq

I totally agree.
It's just that I don't believe people like that are very good at looking ahead. If we announced that all children have free healthcare, I just don't see them going for more than they already have. This would be a win-win I think. The people abusing the system already have the benifits of free medical (government ofr just not paying). This would help the people who don't abuse.

That or we just cut the deadbeats off.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-12-2006, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I totally agree.
It's just that I don't believe people like that are very good at looking ahead. If we announced that all children have free healthcare, I just don't see them going for more than they already have. This would be a win-win I think. The people abusing the system already have the benifits of free medical (government ofr just not paying). This would help the people who don't abuse.

That or we just cut the deadbeats off.

i'm ok with cutting off deadbeats

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

i'm ok with cutting off deadbeats

Would be difficult for a party to do that. Their opponents would run on the "He let poor children die" platform that would be a disaster.

thomez · 09-12-2006, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

I totally agree.
It's just that I don't believe people like that are very good at looking ahead. If we announced that all children have free healthcare, I just don't see them going for more than they already have. This would be a win-win I think. The people abusing the system already have the benifits of free medical (government ofr just not paying). This would help the people who don't abuse.

That or we just cut the deadbeats off.

How hard would you work if you thought your child was either going to starve or get taken away from you because of malnourishment? Seriously.

6SpeedTA95 · 09-12-2006, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Would be difficult for a party to do that. Their opponents would run on the "He let poor children die" platform that would be a disaster.

I dont care who does it, I'd support them, democrat, republican, libertarian...we're not talking about cutting off the poor, we're talking about cutting off deadbeats. There's a difference as I'm sure you'd agree.

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

How hard would you work if you thought your child was either going to starve or get taken away from you because of malnourishment? Seriously.

Me or the people we are discussing?

I would do anything, I think these people would A) Turn to crime and/or B) have their kids out panhandling.

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I dont care who does it, I'd support them, democrat, republican, libertarian...we're not talking about cutting off the poor, we're talking about cutting off deadbeats. There's a difference as I'm sure you'd agree.

It just worries me to think about cutting off help because I would be pissed if someone, who the system was made to work for, got the shaft.

Ardentfrost · 09-12-2006, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Scrum

I would do anything, I think these people would A) Turn to crime and/or B) have their kids out panhandling.

I think they would go to a local organization and beg for help. Once they became humble enough to beg, they'd become realistic enough to get a job.

thomez · 09-12-2006, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Would be difficult for a party to do that. Their opponents would run on the "He let poor children die" platform that would be a disaster.

that's why China is going to economically kick our ass. They can make changes on a dime, anytime they want. No bureaucracy issues. They have no accountability. They do what they want and you do it or suffer. Authoritarian capitalism will prove the most effective economic policy ever. Sad but true

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

that's why China is going to economically kick our ass. They can make changes on a dime, anytime they want. No bureaucracy issues. They have no accountability. They do what they want and you do it or suffer. Authoritarian capitalism will prove the most effective economic policy ever. Sad but true

That's true, but they are also much more susceptible to unrest and an uprising than we are.

Ardentfrost · 09-12-2006, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

that's why China is going to economically kick our ass. They can make changes on a dime, anytime they want. No bureaucracy issues. They have no accountability. They do what they want and you do it or suffer. Authoritarian capitalism will prove the most effective economic policy ever. Sad but true

I actually can't wait til they whoop our ass. I think it'll be sobering for Americans, and finally allow us to really focus on our problems

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I think they would go to a local organization and beg for help. Once they became humble enough to beg, they'd become realistic enough to get a job.

We can hope.

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I actually can't wait til they whoop our ass. I think it'll be sobering for Americans, and finally allow us to really focus on our problems

Dude, gays will still want to get married.

thomez · 09-12-2006, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Me or the people we are discussing?

I would do anything, I think these people would A) Turn to crime and/or B) have their kids out panhandling.

people discussing

in both of your options, they get arrested and kids taken, so that's probably not going to be too widespread, one would hope

Ardentfrost · 09-12-2006, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Dude, gays will still want to get married.

Scrum · 09-12-2006, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by thomez

people discussing

in both of your options, they get arrested and kids taken, so that's probably not going to be too widespread, one would hope

Any idea what the numbers are on the amount of people collecting welfare? I have never seen anything solid. And what percentage of those people do you think wouldn't end up providing for themselves?

I suppose you're right, as long as it's not widespread. But if they all woke up one day and hit the streets we would be fucked.

thomez · 09-12-2006, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

That's true, but they are also much more susceptible to unrest and an uprising than we are.

I think the days of revolution are about over, the governments have extreme weapons advantages over the people. And they have no problem ruling with fear or murder, nobody is going to stop them.

thomez · 09-12-2006, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Any idea what the numbers are on the amount of people collecting welfare? I have never seen anything solid. And what percentage of those people do you think wouldn't end up providing for themselves?

I suppose you're right, as long as it's not widespread. But if they all woke up one day and hit the streets we would be fucked.

I dunno, I'd have to look up a number.

As for your 2nd point, my 12 gauge begs to differ