Two objective reasons to re-consider your support of Obama

[Thorgrim]

Assuming the worst, it looks like Clinton will end up winning states totaling 300+ EVs (PA, KY, WV are near locks)

So, let's take away the states we all know Hillary won't win in 2008

AK, TX, OK, AZ, TN, KY...roughly 76 EV...now let's add in Obama states she's almost surely to win: Vermont, Maine, Connecticut, Illinois, Minnesota, Maryland, Delaware, DC, Washington, Hawaii...that's exactly 76 EV...

Now let's look at Obama:
His total would be 320 if you add in ALL his primary state wins AND all the states that were solid Kerry/Gore states except MI, OH, PA and NJ (see SurveyUSA post)

Now we have to take away some states that aren't going to go him unless McCain is found on video conducting a Satanic ritual: Wyoming, Utah...etc the list is huge

He ends up losing around 90 EV, and falls way down to a pathetic 235

Hillary, in this scenario, loses Iowa, Wisconsin, even fucking Oregon, and remains at 278

That's why the Clinton campaign still says "winning big battleground states is important"...need an example?



Here we have Ohio

This has been well over a month after all the stupid fake racism cries from SC ended with the primary, so I don't see any Hillary-inspired hatred/prejudice against African Americans during any of her Ohio campaign...also Obama had many times her financial resources, and outspent her many times over

What happens, he wins black-heavy centers like Cleveland (Dennis Kucinich land), Columbus, and Cincinatti...he gets whooped across the state? Why? Because working class "beer drinking" Americans that will make up the crucial vote in 2008 went for Hillary, and she clubbed Obama by 10 points state-wide

Anyone who thinks Obama is going to win the battleground states with increased african american turnout, younger votes, and the wine club of white people...against McCain's coalition that appeals to independents...yea...

Facts are simple...black heavy areas like DC, Maryland, etc have more cushion room if the black vote goes down for Hillary, and the wind crowd areas like liberal vermont are going D no matter what...

While the working class whites...in Ohio, PA, NJ, MI, WI, MN...and hispanics in FL, NM, etc there is zero room for error and Obama is doing poorly there

The whole "I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils" argument has failed so often I can make examples from Nader all the way to where I'd violate Goodwin's Law

You guys want 4 more years of Bush-McCain...keep rolling the dice, it reminds me of watching a friend "letting it ride" when he was up $500 at blackjack...since he was so stubborn and decided he just had to gamble it, sure I crossed my fingers...but I knew it was a dumb call, you walk away ahead...it looks like March 4 the US Democrats stood up and went "wow wait a second here...I'm rethinking this bet" and thank god for that

[kombayn]

Ah, welcome back Thor. Hillary's #1 supporter is here and his crazy progressive antics are back. I am glad to have you back, what will you say when she loses the nomination? Are you going to go on about how Hillary should run 3rd Party?

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Ah, welcome back Thor. Hillary's #1 supporter is here and his crazy progressive antics are back. I am glad to have you back, what will you say when she loses the nomination? Are you going to go on about how Hillary should run 3rd Party?

It's funny you ask that. I brought that up in another thread because I can't see her just stepping down if she doesn't get the nomination. First I think she will try to sue, if that doesn't work I think she will try to run 3rd party (if she can legally, which I'm not sure she can).

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

if that doesn't work I think she will try to run 3rd party (if she can legally, which I'm not sure she can).

I don't see what legality has to do with anything involving Hillary... I don't think she'll run third party, but I don't think she'd let silly things like laws stop her.

[Thorgrim]

yeah i mean she murdered vince foster who knows what else she's capable of...amirite?

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

yeah i mean she murdered vince foster who knows what else she's capable of...amirite?

Well, no one thinks she actually pulled the trigger

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Well, no one thinks she actually pulled the trigger

I constantly see people asking "did she pull the trigger?"

What was Hillary's role in Vince Foster's murder? - Yahoo! Answers

Don't underestimate her

Which do you think is worse, someone who shoots innocent public servants, an al qaeda terrorists pretending to be a presidential candidate, or a communist plant made in Vietnam?

aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." Saigon-UPI, June 4, 1969

"The English-Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a series using American prisoners. It was in response to a plea by Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the Geneva Convention." The Washington Post - June 5, 1969

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information from him, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital. (U.S. government documents)

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain

Phoenix New Times, March 25, 1999 -- Two former POWs, Air Force Colonels Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede" Larson, said in a feature article that while they could not guarantee that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it. Both Guy and Larson were senior ranking officers (SRO's) in McCain's POW camp at a time he claims he was in solitary confinement and being tortured.
Larson told the New Times, "Between the two of us, it's our belief, and to the best of our knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that camp [known as 'The Plantation'].
"My only contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation, to the best of my knowledge and Ted's knowledge, he was not physically abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people were released from

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I constantly see people asking "did she pull the trigger?"

What was Hillary's role in Vince Foster's murder? - Yahoo! Answers

Don't underestimate her

Which do you think is worse, someone who shoots innocent public servants, an al qaeda terrorists pretending to be a presidential candidate, or a communist plant made in Vietnam?

That was fast. I didn't think Hitlery supporters would start saying McCain was a war criminal/coward/traitor until the primary was over!

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

That was fast. I didn't think Hitlery supporters would start saying McCain was a war criminal/coward/traitor until the primary was over!

It's on google, it has to be true, just like vince foster

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It's on google, it has to be true, just like vince foster

Do you remember?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Stylerod

Do you remember?

when hillary shot vince foster? no i wasn't there

[Stylerod]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

when hillary shot vince foster? no i wasn't there

No, when you lost your sense of humor.

[kombayn]

Hmm... Vote for Cool Smooth-talking Articulate Black-Man or Crazy Manipulative Helpless (Does nothing about her Husband cheating on her for political reasons... Pu$$y bitch.) White-Woman... I'll vote for the Black-man, you never know what Hillary might do while she's on her rag...

[SoFlaJDM]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Hmm... Vote for Cool Smooth-talking Articulate Black-Man or Crazy Manipulative Helpless (Does nothing about her Husband cheating on her for political reasons... Pu$$y bitch.) White-Woman... I'll vote for the Black-man, you never know what Hillary might do while she's on her rag...

i don't know whether to , , or

[Phantom]

I only see one reason - that you think Hillary is more likely to win in the general election.

Did I miss something?

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Phantom

I only see one reason - that you think Hillary is more likely to win in the general election.

Did I miss something?

It also doesn't appear to be all that objective, really.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

It also doesn't appear to be all that objective, really.

1)
Hillary is going to win more electoral vote states in the primaries, from more reasonable sources

2)
Hillary had trouble in basically every part of Ohio that didn't have a significant black population


if people think those points are the same, they might as well look at all of your posts and say "its all the same thing, libertarians rule, everyone else in politics drools"

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

1)
Hillary is going to win more electoral vote states in the primaries, from more reasonable sources

2)
Hillary had trouble in basically every part of Ohio that didn't have a significant black population


if people think those points are the same, they might as well look at all of your posts and say "its all the same thing, libertarians rule, everyone else in politics drools"

got it.

How can you say Hillary is going to win more electoral votes though?

You can't project what's going to happen in a general election based on primaries, they just aren't comparable when you include factors such as procedures (caucus vs. primary), and single-candidate voters (those who came out for Obama but would never vote for Hillary).

It seems to me the projections are based on flawed assumptions.

[Thorgrim]

i didnt say Obama is going to win exactly...and Hillary is going to win exactly...

if someone could say what exactly what would happen in Nov, no one would be discussing the election

It's two PROBLEMS not two solutions, i didn't say Hillary was the solution to both problems, i am saying Obama has two problems

[Phantom]

Let's try this again again. You're assuming he has problems based on the results of primary elections

My assertion is basing assumptions of general election results on primary results is flawed.