UN: Palestinian "economy" collapsing

[motivez]

Palestinian economy collapsing, says UN | Herald Sun

THE United Nations says a Western aid boycott has left the Palestinian economy on the verge of collapse, with two out of three families living below the poverty level.

The UN says Israel's separation barrier which led to the confiscation of almost one-fifth of West Bank farm land and lower agricultural production has also been a factor in the decline.

After the Islamic militant group Hamas took power in March, nearly all donors suspended aid to the Palestinian Authority which was $US800 million ($1.07 billion) in 2005.

The UN says the Palestinian economy will implode over the next 18 months if current constraints aren't removed.

Well, there was hardly an economy before. It simply wasn't possible with the harsh oppression of the Israeli military occupation of Palestinian land.

Now with donations out the window, and more of what little farmland there was actually available being stolen by Israel.. is it any suprise that they were willing to go to extremes in kidnapping the soldier?

Or that they're willing to blow themselves up because of what they see as a horrible injustice?

Why are we so afraid to hold Israel accountable for their actions which simply perpetuate and encourage terrorism, which provoke suicide bombings and attacks on soldiers?

Why don't we put more pressure on them to do more to help uplift the Palestinian people through free trade and ownership and soverignity of their land without having to worry about Israeli military checkpoints on their way home?

Or having their homes indiscriminately bulldozed by Israeli soldiers?
Or having US made Israeli weapons lobbed into their neighboorhoods?
Or having their children shot and killed when they throw rocks when an Israeli military incursion into their land further disrupts their lives?
Or when they're forbidden from leaving their homes for so many days out of the year?

Or when...

The list goes on... and on... and on.

Why are we so willing to appease, and justify, and support "Jewish" totalitarianism that's forced on the Palestinian population against their will when we're around the world talking about the transformational power of freedom and Democracy on a society?

None of this says we have to agree with the actions of terrorists, or that we should support those actions btw, so hopefully I wont see that tired old strawman.

[Ardentfrost]

wait, I thought the UN didn't recognize Palestine... so how can they measure their economy?

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by motivez

Palestinian economy collapsing, says UN | Herald Sun



Well, there was hardly an economy before. It simply wasn't possible with the harsh oppression of the Israeli military occupation of Palestinian land.

Now with donations out the window, and more of what little farmland there was actually available being stolen by Israel.. is it any suprise that they were willing to go to extremes in kidnapping the soldier?

Or that they're willing to blow themselves up because of what they see as a horrible injustice?

Why are we so afraid to hold Israel accountable for their actions which simply perpetuate and encourage terrorism, which provoke suicide bombings and attacks on soldiers?

Why don't we put more pressure on them to do more to help uplift the Palestinian people through free trade and ownership and soverignity of their land without having to worry about Israeli military checkpoints on their way home?

Or having their homes indiscriminately bulldozed by Israeli soldiers?
Or having US made Israeli weapons lobbed into their neighboorhoods?
Or having their children shot and killed when they throw rocks when an Israeli military incursion into their land further disrupts their lives?
Or when they're forbidden from leaving their homes for so many days out of the year?

Or when...

The list goes on... and on... and on.

Why are we so willing to appease, and justify, and support "Jewish" totalitarianism that's forced on the Palestinian population against their will when we're around the world talking about the transformational power of freedom and Democracy on a society?

None of this says we have to agree with the actions of terrorists, or that we should support those actions btw, so hopefully I wont see that tired old strawman.

what a short memory you have

just last year israel withdrew completely from gaza, so how on earth can you possibly say israel is stealing more land. it's pretty simple, elect a terrorist organization into your government who fires rockets into israel and kidnaps an israeli soldier, and your economy will suffer.

we wanted to see if palestinians could handle a little something we call responsibility and they failed miserably, they are a self-depricating society who fail to see the effects of their actions. you cannot blame terrorism on an occupation when terrorism began BEFORE said occupation, its illogical and too many people legitimize this point.

there is a simple solution, clean up the government, recognize israel, give soldier back, stop firing rockets, and money will continue to flow and no need for military incursions.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by slosucks

we wanted to see if palestinians could handle a little something we call responsibility and they failed miserably, they are a self-depricating society who fail to see the effects of their actions. you cannot blame terrorism on an occupation when terrorism began BEFORE said occupation, its illogical and too many people legitimize this point.

Wait, so they were commiting acts of terror on Israel before the allies gave the land to the jews?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by slosucks

just last year israel withdrew completely from gaza, so how on earth can you possibly say israel is stealing more land. it's pretty simple, elect a terrorist organization into your government who fires rockets into israel and kidnaps an israeli soldier, and your economy will suffer.

If you think they "completely withdrew" you're delusional. Without full autonomy over the land handed over to the Palestinians, and without ensuring that Israel simply can't cross the border militarily every time they want, a "pullout" means absolutely nothing.

And yes, I agree that's a likely (and desired) outcome when electing extremists, but it's not like moderation on their end has allowed them to see significant gains, and a party promising to stand up to the big bad bully is obviously going to be popular when Israel is so oppressive.

Originally Posted by slosucks

we wanted to see if palestinians could handle a little something we call responsibility and they failed miserably, they are a self-depricating society who fail to see the effects of their actions. you cannot blame terrorism on an occupation when terrorism began BEFORE said occupation, its illogical and too many people legitimize this point.

I'll stick by what I said above. Without control and assurances, it means nothing. When their soverignity is dotted by Israeli settlements all over and roads they don't have access too and checkpoints they're turned away from, and military action from a foreign government on a daily basis,

I also reject that it's Israel "responding" to terrorism like you want to frame it in every single case, the media does it at the behest of Jewish media lobbies, but it's incorrect in many cases.

The terrible situation on the ground creates an atmosphere that breeds extremism, and that situation is perpetuated by Israel.

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by Scrumtralecent

Wait, so they were commiting acts of terror on Israel before the allies gave the land to the jews?

nice try..........they were

there were jewish settlements in the early 1900's, one in which i visited on the outskirts of what is now the westbank called gush etzion.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Gush Etzion
Gush Etzion (Hebrew גוש עציון, literally bloc of the tree) is a group of Israeli settlements in the northern Judea region of the West Bank. The first modern Jewish attempt to settle the area known today as Gush Etzion took place in 1927 by a group of Yemenite Jews who founded an agricultural village called Migdal Eder (Hebrew מגדל עדר), in reference to a biblical location (Genesis 35:21). The location was purchased because it was roughly equidistant from Bethlehem and Hebron, and thus fell between the zones of influence of the local Arab clans. Two years later, the 1929 Palestine riots and recurring hostilities forced the group to flee. The Jews returned after the Six Day War. The following is a list of communities in historic Gush Etzion: Kfar Etzion (Kibbutz), Har Gilo, Alon Shvut, Rosh Tzurim (Kibbutz), Elazar, Migdal Oz (Kibbutz), Neve Daniel, Carmei Tzur, Bat Ayin, Gvaot, Betar Illit and Efrat.

they massacred almost every person in Gush Etzion and some were able to flee, after returning it is now one of the biggest settlements in the west bank.
And this is just one case of terror before 1948.


And even so, legal acquisition of land in 1948 still would not justify terrorism on behalf of palestinians to get their land back, so your argument falls through in either case

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by slosucks

nice try..........they were

there were jewish settlements in the early 1900's, one in which i visited on the outskirts of what is now the westbank called gush etzion.




they massacred almost every person in Gush Etzion and some were able to flee, after returning it is now one of the biggest settlements in the west bank.
And this is just one case of terror before 1948.


And even so, legal acquisition of land in 1948 still would not justify terrorism on behalf of palestinians to get their land back, so your argument falls through in either case

So were they NOT killing EACH OTHER?

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by motivez

If you think they "completely withdrew" you're delusional. Without full autonomy over the land handed over to the Palestinians, and without ensuring that Israel simply can't cross the border militarily every time they want, a "pullout" means absolutely nothing.

And yes, I agree that's a likely (and desired) outcome when electing extremists, but it's not like moderation on their end has allowed them to see significant gains, and a party promising to stand up to the big bad bully is obviously going to be popular when Israel is so oppressive.

im delusional?? i was in Israel last July through august when the pullout went all the way through completion. I don't know where you got your information but the PA had full autonomy, so if you can prove otherwise please do so. And when have we seen moderation on the Palestinian side? Sure the PA was a "moderate" government, but if the extremist groups control the people and the PA can't man up and do something about it, then moderation means nothing as well.

Originally Posted by motivez

I'll stick by what I said above. Without control and assurances, it means nothing. When their soverignity is dotted by Israeli settlements all over and roads they don't have access too and checkpoints they're turned away from, and military action from a foreign government on a daily basis,

I also reject that it's Israel "responding" to terrorism like you want to frame it in every single case, the media does it at the behest of Jewish media lobbies, but it's incorrect in many cases.

The terrible situation on the ground creates an atmosphere that breeds extremism, and that situation is perpetuated by Israel.

Again you're wrong, all 9000 settlers were removed from the Gaza strip and a great many by force. So you saying Gaza being dotted by settlements is unfounded, not a single jew lives in Gaza since last August. Again, no checkpoints, no blocked roads this entire year, it was all under PA authority, Israel did not enter Gaza untill Gilad Shalit was kidnapped.

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

So were they NOT killing EACH OTHER?

no.........???


this was a small jewish settlement with no weapons, they were not a country, no army, it was a massacre

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by slosucks

no.........???


this was a small jewish settlement with no weapons, they were not a country, no army, it was a massacre

Talking in general here. Each side has "specific" incidents. They have been fighting forever.

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Talking in general here. Each side has "specific" incidents. They have been fighting forever.

site incidents please in that region

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by slosucks

site incidents please in that region

Gee, let me guess, you're part of the "Jews are eternal victims" crowd? You can't even admit BOTH sides have been killing EACH OTHER?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Gee, let me guess, you're part of the "Jews are eternal victims" crowd? You can't even admit BOTH sides have been killing EACH OTHER?

Whoa, calm down there bro, he's just asking for specific incidents, maybe the guy knows something we dont? he lived over there

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Whoa, calm down there bro, he's just asking for specific incidents, maybe the guy knows something we dont? he lived over there

Then he should already know the history of the region and doesn't need my help.

[slosucks]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Then he should already know the history of the region and doesn't need my help.

and i know a hell of a lot more jews died at the hand of their oppressors than arabs in this conflict


youre getting off topic

my comment was that since jews legally acquired land from the UK, you cannot sit there and justify terrorism on the account of stolen land, regressing to the overall point, you cannot claim terrorism is a result of occupation when terrorism started before the occupation. I'm referring to 1967 when the modern "occupation" began and not to 1948 since this is not considered an occupation by ANYONE in the international community.

[Ardentfrost]

Hasn't terrorism existed since the British went over there a long time ago? Isn't that what bad feelings about Isreal's creation has to do with? The British giving away land that they stole to begin with?

I mean, I'm really not that versed with all the nuances of the area, but I was under the impression that was the big stuff. All the other stuff is sorta based around stuff like that.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by slosucks

you cannot sit there and justify terrorism on the account of stolen land

I don't remember justifying terrorism.. but you sure knocked that strawman down with the swiftness.

Originally Posted by slosucks

you cannot claim terrorism is a result of occupation when terrorism started before the occupation.

Way to avoid any blame on Israel for their harsh oppression and war crimes against the Palestinians. It's well documented, and any reasonable person who doesn't feel some overwhelming need to be an Israeli apologist can understand that conditions on the ground in the Palestinian territories, conditions that are imposed, enforced, and perpetuated by Israel breed the kind of extremism everyone would like to see stop.

Originally Posted by slosucks

I'm referring to 1967 when the modern "occupation" began and not to 1948 since this is not considered an occupation by ANYONE in the international community.

Of course it is, just not by people you really care about. They're dismised, or accused of being terrorist sympathizers, etc..

[kinggovernor]

what country is palestine, I cant find it on the map

[motivez]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor