4,000 troops have been killed in Iraq

[Thorgrim]

If you picture those crosses going on for ALMOST A MILE, that would be how many US soldiers have died in Iraq

Each cross represents a person, and once they're killed you take away everything they are ever going to be...

It's sad that we don't usually mark the high point for wounded as well, as tens of thousands stream home with serious problems that have severely hurt family after family

Also, to those that do come home "officially" uninjured, after multiple tours of urban occupation, they are already facing unemployment problems and severe mental disorders they will carry with them the rest of their lives

Eventually, it is likely the personal damage will go in the hundreds of thousands, like Vietnam, and future generations will be unable to comprehend why we went in...let alone why we stayed

However, this sad milestone has passed, and hopefully we'll all pause to remember the sacrifices of so many families

[motivez]

It's really sad, especially considering that as of late, only something like 6% of the media coverage has been about Iraq

That's mainly because violence is down as a result of Sadr's militia declaring the truce with other militias, and the fact that we're now using taxpayer money to pay various insurgent groups not to kill us (I wonder what that money is going to fund...?)

I really think that when we pull out, it's going to be chaos, but I think it's going to be that way whenever we leave, whether it's this year or five years down the line..

And, I really don't know what's left for our troops to do anymore. They're basically street cops, that's not how we should use our military.. we need to bring the international community on board and get the majority of our forces out so the Iraqi's can begin to solve their own problems, IMO.

[Thorgrim]

Bush-McCain War

[A_C_E]

Bring them home with as much haste as safety will allow.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Bush-McCain War

extremely tasteless IMO

[Tessy]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

extremely tasteless IMO

I liked it! We need more like this. I only wish the government wouldn't sneak the bodies in under the cover of night! Shameful!

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Tessy

I liked it! We need more like this. I only wish the government wouldn't sneak the bodies in under the cover of night! Shameful!

Almost as shameful as using the faces of the dead for propaganda and sensationalism. As King has said, this is tasteless.

[Tessy]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Almost as shameful as using the faces of the dead for propaganda and sensationalism. As King has said, this is tasteless.

So they should be forgotten and put out of sight? They wouldn't ant their faces used to
stop yet more senseless killings and death? What about crosses, headstones, and coffins?
Is it just the faces you're opposed to?

[Simius]

Originally Posted by Tessy

So they should be forgotten and put out of sight? They wouldn't ant their faces used to
stop yet more senseless killings and death? What about crosses, headstones, and coffins?
Is it just the faces you're opposed to?

I think it was the disrespectful use of their faces he was objecting to.... not simply the use of their faces.

And no, I'm sure a lot of the dead soldiers wouldn't want their faces used to end the war. I'm sure many of them believed in what we are doing there full heartedly.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Tessy

So they should be forgotten and put out of sight? They wouldn't ant their faces used to
stop yet more senseless killings and death? What about crosses, headstones, and coffins?
Is it just the faces you're opposed to?

These are your political views, not necessarily theirs. I don't care what side the propaganda and sensationalism is on. If conservatives had put their faces in the layout of Hillary/Obama and the message wasn't Bush-McCain's War, but rather something along the lines of not letting them die for nothing I would object whole-heartedly as well.

My view on this when I call it tasteless is not about the political message, its about the sheer lack of respect to the men and women who died as well as their families. These brave men and women deserve better than being used as a tool for propaganda and sensationalism to promote someone's political agenda that may not have been their own.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Simius

I think it was the disrespectful use of their faces he was objecting to.... not simply the use of their faces.

And no, I'm sure a lot of the dead soldiers wouldn't want their faces used to end the war. I'm sure many of them believed in what we are doing there full heartedly.

Unfortunately we can not question the dead

However we do know many veterans, including the two most famous I can think of (Marlboro man and Pat Tillman) were against the war...but many many more on top of that were vehemently anti-war when they died in Iraq, this is from parents obviously, as seen on places like NBC/CNN TV so I don't have links handy, however thera are anti-war groups that have hundreds of active iraq veterans

Members who try to get in with false papers or false stories are denounced and kicked out, but I have seen:

"The killing of innocent civilians is policy," said veteran Mike Blake. "It's unit policy and it's Army policy. It's not official policy, but it's what's happens on the ground everyday. It's what unit commanders individually encourage." Veteran Matt Howard agreed, saying, "These decisions are coming from the top down. The tactics that we use, the policies that the military engages, will create situations, create dynamics, create -- ultimately -- atrocity."

From the above, and from your own research, I am sure you know very well that:
1) There are many anti-war soldiers
2) There are even more who do want to die for Bush's War
3) There are very few who want to die to stop Iraq from slipping into civil war (Gen McCaffrey stated just today that large sectarian violence will happen for the next 100 years and there is nothing we can do about it...I believe most troops who have been there realize the situation, and aren't all roses and sunshine, and those do I personally believe have been subjected to extreme propaganda (new recruits, particular marines)

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Tessy

I liked it! We need more like this. I only wish the government wouldn't sneak the bodies in under the cover of night! Shameful!

funerals are a private matter for families.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

From the above, and from your own research, I am sure you know very well that:
1) There are many anti-war soldiers
2) There are even more who do want to die for Bush's War

then make a picture with them, with their families' consent. Make sure you include all policymakers that have supported the action in the picture.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Tessy

I liked it! We need more like this. I only wish the government wouldn't sneak the bodies in under the cover of night! Shameful!

if you put them in alphabetical order than it's bush-clinton-mccain war

don't forget hillary voted for it, too.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Tessy

So they should be forgotten and put out of sight? They wouldn't ant their faces used to
stop yet more senseless killings and death? What about crosses, headstones, and coffins?
Is it just the faces you're opposed to?

It's definitely tasteless. Using the dead to further a political opinion is just twisting the knife for their families and such.

I don't support the war but watching people do stuff like this just makes me cringe because it makes my side look like assholes.

[Thorgrim]

The picture is supposed to be powerful, and it upsets some people because it comes off as political, but that is the nature of this war, this is a political war

I think is far far less tasteless than when Bush/McCain invoke the fallen and say "let them not die in vain, we stay to win (and make sure the GOP stays in power)"

What if the GOP got everything it wanted in Iraq...more troops, etc...what if we still had large scale sectarian violence, troop deaths, eventually the situation was out of control even beyond the US military having bases there became untenable as the government fell and various factions, none of them friendly, vied for power and all wanted to kill Americans

Clearly, we'd have to withdraw in disgrace, how disgusting is that...that the Commander-in-Chief would have basically said 4,000 American troops died in vain...not because of Democrats but because the situation itself forced us to withdraw

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The picture is supposed to be powerful, and it upsets some people because it comes off as political, but that is the nature of this war, this is a political war

Comes off as political? It is political. It's 100% political.

I think is far far less tasteless than when Bush/McCain invoke the fallen and say "let them not die in vain, we stay to win (and make sure the GOP stays in power)"

What if the GOP got everything it wanted in Iraq...more troops, etc...what if we still had large scale sectarian violence, troop deaths, eventually the situation was out of control even beyond the US military having bases there became untenable as the government fell and various factions, none of them friendly, vied for power and all wanted to kill Americans

Clearly, we'd have to withdraw in disgrace, how disgusting is that...that the Commander-in-Chief would have basically said 4,000 American troops died in vain...not because of Democrats but because the situation itself forced us to withdraw

Who cares about the GOP, Democrats, Bush, etc? It has nothing to do with the using the faces of fallen Americans for propaganda and sensationalism... no matter which side does it. Your argument seems to be two wrongs make a right. I have trouble following that logic.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

The picture is supposed to be powerful, and it upsets some people because it comes off as political, but that is the nature of this war, this is a political war

I think is far far less tasteless than when Bush/McCain invoke the fallen and say "let them not die in vain, we stay to win (and make sure the GOP stays in power)"

What if the GOP got everything it wanted in Iraq...more troops, etc...what if we still had large scale sectarian violence, troop deaths, eventually the situation was out of control even beyond the US military having bases there became untenable as the government fell and various factions, none of them friendly, vied for power and all wanted to kill Americans

Clearly, we'd have to withdraw in disgrace, how disgusting is that...that the Commander-in-Chief would have basically said 4,000 American troops died in vain...not because of Democrats but because the situation itself forced us to withdraw

You have no right to use their image to promote your view, just like the government shouldn't have the right to do so.

[thewise1]

Would it honor you, Thorgrim, if I used your picture to advance a libertarian point of view?

[7960]

Originally Posted by thewise1

You have no right to use their image to promote your view, just like the government shouldn't have the right to do so.

Also it's hugely insanely different to invoke "soldiers" and "lost troops" and "their memory" as it is to insert the picture of a specific dead soldier.