So where does this lady fall in the "personal responsibility" scale? - Page 3

A_C_E · 03-28-2008, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

I was thinking Aesop Fables, but I still have that picture of two squirrels in my mind. The same animals in the same environment. The difference was their own behavior. That was the point.

I know what you meant

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Scrum

My wife is a loan processor and that's about what she was making before the housing market crashed.

And how is a processor fucking people over? They don't sell the loans or even talk to the customer other than to get information needed for paperwork. All they do is fill out forms and fax them to the parties who need them.

It's like saying the person who did the admissions paperwork for the students at VT were somehow responsible for them getting shot.

Mortgage companies didn't screw people over. People screwed themselves over by not making good decisions and understanding what they were doing before they did it.

I still remember when I bought my house, I read through every single sheet of paper in that 100+ page stack, and the person helping me sign was so irritated

A_C_E · 03-28-2008, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Mortgage companies didn't screw people over. People screwed themselves over by not making good decisions and understanding what they were doing before they did it.

I still remember when I bought my house, I read through every single sheet of paper in that 100+ page stack, and the person helping me sign was so irritated

Lenders still do everything they can to take advantage of borrowers. It's like blood in a pool of sharks if a high-risk mortgage firm finds someone who doesn't seem to fully understand the procedure.

It's a complicated process. Not everyone can understand it--it takes a certain level of education.

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Lenders still do everything they can to take advantage of borrowers. It's like blood in a pool of sharks if a high-risk mortgage firm finds someone who doesn't seem to fully understand the procedure.

It's a complicated process. Not everyone can understand it--it takes a certain level of education.

Well, should folks who don't have that level of education be banned from buying a home using a loan? Because I don't see how the company can meet some sort of ambiguous standard like that

That said I can understand why you say that. I feel the same way about those no credit auto dealerships that sell people ford focuses for $19k at 26% interest for 72 months with all the addon packages and warranties and stuff. Pretty tacky and sad. But I still have even more disdain for the people who accept it.

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

how can her taking $450k in equity loans and blowing it not ALL be her fault? who else's fault is it?

Her husband's? I know in a LOT of household's, wives are completely out of the loop when it comes to things like that. I can also see how losing her job can affect things as well. Everyone might be like "hey, get another job...even if it doesn't pay as much." Well, maybe she NEEDS a job that pays that much just to take care of the necessities...daycare, food, etc? She can't just "move" because she can't sell that house and make anything off of it...it's really the only thing they "own" and they don't even "own" it. Yes, she has a lot of responsibility here...she could have been more involved in household finances...or had something to fallback on...but I say she holds nowhere near 100%...not even 90 or 80. I think her husband should probably get some. Unscrupulous lenders...current economic situation can get some too. Cost of living expenses such as food and gas have gone up a great deal.

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Her husband's? I know in a LOT of household's, wives are completely out of the loop when it comes to things like that. I can also see how losing her job can affect things as well. Everyone might be like "hey, get another job...even if it doesn't pay as much." Well, maybe she NEEDS a job that pays that much just to take care of the necessities...daycare, food, etc? She can't just "move" because she can't sell that house and make anything off of it...it's really the only thing they "own" and they don't even "own" it. Yes, she has a lot of responsibility here...she could have been more involved in household finances...or had something to fallback on...but I say she holds nowhere near 100%...not even 90 or 80. I think her husband should probably get some. Unscrupulous lenders...current economic situation can get some too. Cost of living expenses such as food and gas have gone up a great deal.

She's eager to get back to work and to hold onto her home until the market turns. But for this single mom, every day it becomes harder to hang on.

wat

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

1.) She should have gotten another job by now. Going from 70K/year to being unemployed for almost two months doesn't make a lot of sense. If she had the skills to work her way up, she should have gotten another job by now. Especially if she's pressed for money, she shouldn't be holding out for the perfect job, and should take what's offered to her.

2.) I'm loath to blame the banks for their mortgage practices, her payment of which is obviously eating away at her savings. That said, since they trade in a lot of public and governmental securities, and offer some government-backed loans for home purchases, a little more oversight might not be the worst thing in the world.

All that said, 85% her fault.

By the way, I can see 2 months without a job in that industry

She needs to look at a different industry, though, at this point.

7960 · 03-28-2008, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Her husband's? I know in a LOT of household's, wives are completely out of the loop when it comes to things like that.

And whose fault is that?

Hers.

I can also see how losing her job can affect things as well. Everyone might be like "hey, get another job...even if it doesn't pay as much." Well, maybe she NEEDS a job that pays that much just to take care of the necessities...daycare, food, etc?

She could easily reduce her expenses by getting out of that house.

She can't just "move" because she can't sell that house and make anything off of it...it's really the only thing they "own" and they don't even "own" it.

So she got herself in a $450k mess and now that she's there it's someone else's fault and/or problem? Fuck that. She's not there because uncle sam did anything wrong. She's there because she was greedy.

Yes, she has a lot of responsibility here...she could have been more involved in household finances...or had something to fallback on...but I say she holds nowhere near 100%...not even 90 or 80. I think her husband should probably get some.

I'll agree with that.

Unscrupulous lenders...current economic situation can get some too. Cost of living expenses such as food and gas have gone up a great deal.

Those are excuses, not reasons. She got herself in this situation. Lenders aren't to blame, "current economic situation" is a cop out, cost of living is crap. If she didn't blow $450k of equity then she'd still have money.

7960 · 03-28-2008, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Lenders still do everything they can to take advantage of borrowers. It's like blood in a pool of sharks if a high-risk mortgage firm finds someone who doesn't seem to fully understand the procedure.

It's a complicated process. Not everyone can understand it--it takes a certain level of education.

If she's too stupid to understand it herself, for $100 in lawyer fees she could have had someone save her (potentially) $450k in lost equity.

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 10:03 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

wat

Read the whole story.

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

By the way, I can see 2 months without a job in that industry She needs to look at a different industry, though, at this point.

What world do you live in where it's so simple to jump from one industry to another with no education geared towards that industry nor the experience in that industry to put on your resume? When I hire someone, first thing I look at is A: What is their experience in my industry and B: What is their degree? AND, she most certainly isn't getting anywhere near 70k a year in a new industry with no experience in it.

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Read the whole story.

I did. It says she's estranged from her husband.

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

What world do you live in where it's so simple to jump from one industry to another with no education geared towards that industry nor the experience in that industry to put on your resume? When I hire someone, first thing I look at is A: What is their experience in my industry and B: What is their degree? AND, she most certainly isn't getting anywhere near 70k a year in a new industry with no experience in it.

I strongly doubt you hire anyone, and the way you make excuses for everything means that in my opinion, you're not an ideal boss anyway.

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by 7960

And whose fault is that?

Hers.

I know you have the perfect marriage where your wife could pick up and move on tomorrow if you left for some whore you met...but I am willing to bet most marriages are not like that. Most marriages end in divorce I believe.

Originally Posted by 7960

She could easily reduce her expenses by getting out of that house.

How does she get out of the house? What sense does it even make to do such a thing? She will get nothing for it...that's IF someone would even buy it. I think it makes more sense for her to stay there and have a roof over her and her kids head.

Originally Posted by 7960

So she got herself in a $450k mess and now that she's there it's someone else's fault and/or problem? Fuck that. She's not there because uncle sam did anything wrong. She's there because she was greedy.

I am failing to see how you can say "SHE" got herself in that mess. I don't the story makes clear how much she actually had to do with all that.

Originally Posted by 7960

Those are excuses, not reasons. She got herself in this situation. Lenders aren't to blame, "current economic situation" is a cop out, cost of living is crap. If she didn't blow $450k of equity then she'd still have money.

Again, I don't see anything saying SHE blew through that money. Cost of living DOES matter. Shit, this economy has even affected my situation. Because of poor performance, my company cut all bonuses and even cost of living raises. Cost of living has increased during this time as well. I can most definitely see how it could get people in trouble.

For her, not only has her cost of living increased, but her income went to zero. Lenders absolutely took advantage of people. Not only did it affect individuals, but the whole industry is having to be bailed out. Yes, I absolutely place some blame on lenders.

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

I strongly doubt you hire anyone, and the way you make excuses for everything means that in my opinion, you're not an ideal boss anyway.

Well I strongly know you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Not only do I hire people, I am sent to recruit college students as well. But honestly, I don't give a fuck what you think I do or what you think about my ability to do it.

thewise1 · 03-28-2008, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Well I strongly know you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Not only do I hire people, I am sent to recruit college students as well. But honestly, I don't give a fuck what you think I do or what you think about my ability to do it.

Well, even if you hire people, your habit of making excuses for everything is simply the opposite of a good quality.

Sorry dude, I know you're doing it out of the 'goodness' of your heart, but it doesn't mix well with production.

7960 · 03-28-2008, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I know you have the perfect marriage where your wife could pick up and move on tomorrow if you left for some whore you met...but I am willing to bet most marriages are not like that.

If one spouse can't figure out the finances if the other one's gone then that one spouse must be retarted.

Most marriages end in divorce I believe.

You believe wrong.

How does she get out of the house? What sense does it even make to do such a thing? She will get nothing for it...that's IF someone would even buy it. I think it makes more sense for her to stay there and have a roof over her and her kids head.

She's paying $2500 on an interest-only mortgage. She can sell the house at a loss, find a place to rent, and still pay less than she's paying now and possibly even begin to build equity.

For her, not only has her cost of living increased, but her income went to zero. Lenders absolutely took advantage of people. Not only did it affect individuals, but the whole industry is having to be bailed out. Yes, I absolutely place some blame on lenders.

Lenders didn't get her into a $2500 interest-only loan. They signed her up for it, sure, but they didn't go into the streets to find her and drag her in to sign the paperwork. She did it (she and her husband, whatever).

Donkey® · 03-28-2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by thewise1

Well, even if you hire people, your habit of making excuses for everything is simply the opposite of a good quality. Sorry dude, I know you're doing it out of the 'goodness' of your heart, but it doesn't mix well with production.

I think there's a huge difference between putting myself in another person's shoes and "making excuses." Besides, I haven't survived this long in my industry by making excuses. I produce results and so does my team. I will say though that the people I hire most of the time don't work directly for me. I am on the technical side of the house, not administration. The kids I pull out of college usually intern a year...then come back and do rotation.