So where does this lady fall in the "personal responsibility" scale?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

50% is most?

Is it exactly 50%? Either way...a LOT of marriages are fail. Obviously this one was too.

Originally Posted by 7960

Why not from the equity she's built up in her house? Or her savings?

Oh wait.......she blew that.

Still doesn't vacate the fact she needs to pay those expenses somehow just to move.

Originally Posted by 7960

Lenders gave her dozens of pieces of paper that she (apparently) signed and gave back just to get her check. For $100 a lawyer would have told her whatever she was too lazy to read for herself.

We're in agreement here as well. IF she signed any of the papers without understanding what it was...her fault. IF the lenders were shady, their fault.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

BUT, at what point should she just give up? I mean, the housing market WILL turn around at some point. That would allow her to recoup a larger amount. On top of that, it does cost money to move and relocate. Where would that come from?

When she becomes a burden to society. The woman was making $70k a year, plus she borrowed all this money against her home. It doesn't say she invested it into a businesses, where'd the hundreds of thousands go? We shouldn't have to pay for her to have lived the lifestyle she was living to only go broke when she loses her job and finds out she can't afford it.

Not to sound like a complete jerk or anything, but I'm willing to bet there's more to this story such as alcoholism or something. In any event, it's not my responsibility or anyone else's to bail her out. She has the home, sell it for a loss. Move in to an apartment. Take the first job she can find and start over.

If she had been responsible with her money and she lost her job and found herself tight, I'd be more than willing to say she should go on public assistance. But this woman doesn't deserve it. So to answer your question, "at what point should she give up?" Just before she asks the government for our tax dollars to bail her out.

[6SpeedTA95]

She's responsible for her position. Blaming it on the fact that she lost her job is ridiculous. She was pretty leveraged with a home more than 3 times her yearly income, especially having kids.


Now to find out she originally scored a great deal on a very valuable property and she and her husband? Took out home equity lines of credit and ran the bill up to 600k+ and we're supposed to feel bad for her? She should learn to do math.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I think there's a huge difference between putting myself in another person's shoes and "making excuses." Besides, I haven't survived this long in my industry by making excuses. I produce results and so does my team. I will say though that the people I hire most of the time don't work directly for me. I am on the technical side of the house, not administration. The kids I pull out of college usually intern a year...then come back and do rotation.

House? Team?

Holy shit do you work in finance?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

She's responsible for her position. Blaming it on the fact that she lost her job is ridiculous. She was pretty leveraged with a home more than 3 times her yearly income, especially having kids.


Now to find out she originally scored a great deal on a very valuable property and she and her husband? Took out home equity lines of credit and ran the bill up to 600k+ and we're supposed to feel bad for her? She should learn to do math.

I don't think anyone has said "she lost her job and that is to blame for her situation." I know I have considered that as ONE of the factors for her position. Some are her fault...others are not. Again, you have NO CLUE what her involvement was on all those home loans.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

House? Team?

Holy shit do you work in finance?

Um, no? What are you trying to talk about here?

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Um, no? What are you trying to talk about here?

nevermind

[hsmith]

And maybe it WAS her fault she lost her job

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

We're in agreement here as well. IF she signed any of the papers without understanding what it was...her fault. IF the lenders were shady, their fault.

define shady.

if I sign something without knowing what it says it's my fault, not the lender's. if they lie and tell me my payments will be $20 and I sign and it turns out the payments are $200 it's MY fault, not theirs.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

define shady.

if I sign something without knowing what it says it's my fault, not the lender's. if they lie and tell me my payments will be $20 and I sign and it turns out the payments are $200 it's MY fault, not theirs.

There's a whole slew of things that make lenders shady. The FTC has a list...

* Encourages you to falsify your application information to get the loan.
* Urges you to borrow more than you need.
* Pushes you to accept payment terms that you can't realistically meet.
* Fails to give you the required disclosures (e.g., APR, rescission rights, etc.).
* Shows up at closing with a totally different loan product than you agreed to.
* Asks you to sign blank forms. ("It'll speed things up. We'll fill in the blanks later, trust me.")
* Denies you copies of documents you signed.

While a person SHOULD recognize all this, not everyone is a financial genius and not everyone can understand everything they do when it comes to loans, banking, etc. That's why there are laws and standards these people have to operate by.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

There's a whole slew of things that make lenders shady. The FTC has a list...

* Encourages you to falsify your application information to get the loan.
* Urges you to borrow more than you need.
* Pushes you to accept payment terms that you can't realistically meet.
* Fails to give you the required disclosures (e.g., APR, rescission rights, etc.).
* Shows up at closing with a totally different loan product than you agreed to.
* Asks you to sign blank forms. ("It'll speed things up. We'll fill in the blanks later, trust me.")
* Denies you copies of documents you signed.

While a person SHOULD recognize all this, not everyone is a financial genius and not everyone can understand everything they do when it comes to loans, banking, etc. That's why there are laws and standards these people have to operate by.

All valid points and cause for concern no doubt about it.

So does that mean you're blaming her irresponsible behavior on the banks?

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I still remember when I bought my house, I read through every single sheet of paper in that 100+ page stack, and the person helping me sign was so irritated

And initial here please......................

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by 7960

define shady.

if I sign something without knowing what it says it's my fault, not the lender's. if they lie and tell me my payments will be $20 and I sign and it turns out the payments are $200 it's MY fault, not theirs.

If everything must be idiot proof we might as well live in plastic bubbles and cry to mommy when it is feeding time!

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

If everything must be idiot proof we might as well live in plastic bubbles and cry to mommy when it is feeding time!

I agree with you and 7960 that individuals MUST be responsible for their paperwork. When I was going through the home loan process I found NUMEROUS errors, had to basically hold the loan officers hand.

HOWEVER, banks and lending institutions have an obligation to be honest and upfront with their clients. Many people got unnecessarily hurt due to piss poor banking practices that amount to nothing more than greed. While I do NOT want a nanny state or more regulations, I firmly believe in personal responsibility and responsibility extends to the corporate side as well.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

There's a whole slew of things that make lenders shady. The FTC has a list...

* Encourages you to falsify your application information to get the loan.
* Urges you to borrow more than you need.
* Pushes you to accept payment terms that you can't realistically meet.
* Fails to give you the required disclosures (e.g., APR, rescission rights, etc.).
* Shows up at closing with a totally different loan product than you agreed to.
* Asks you to sign blank forms. ("It'll speed things up. We'll fill in the blanks later, trust me.")
* Denies you copies of documents you signed.

While a person SHOULD recognize all this, not everyone is a financial genius and not everyone can understand everything they do when it comes to loans, banking, etc. That's why there are laws and standards these people have to operate by.

say:

no
no
no
bring a lawyer
no and/or leave
no
no / lawyer you brought should take care of this

there, that was easy. if someone's going to sign a paper saying they're going to owe $100k why won't they spend another $200 on a lawyer to make sure it's right?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

say:

no
no
no
bring a lawyer
no and/or leave
no
no / lawyer you brought should take care of this

there, that was easy. if someone's going to sign a paper saying they're going to owe $100k why won't they spend another $200 on a lawyer to make sure it's right?

I didn't realize there was an intelligence requirement for the "american dream". Believe it or not, not everyone knows everything about everything. What you call common sense isn't common sense to everyone. That's why there are government regulations for most businesses.

[Galactic Gigolo]

I only read page one of the thread, but I saw the CNN report on this story that featured an interview with the woman.

I don't know if this was intentional, but right when the woman says, "We can't afford food anymore" the camera pans down to what appears to be a very expensive bracelet around her wrist

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Galactic Gigolo

I don't know if this was intentional, but right when the woman says, "We can't afford food anymore" the camera pans down to what appears to be a very expensive bracelet around her wrist

Paid for with money she borrowed against her house no doubt. Then she wants our taxes to bail her out.

[Galactic Gigolo]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Paid for with money she borrowed against her house no doubt. Then she wants our taxes to bail her out.

This was a nice house too. I'm an upper middle class Jersey resident and this fat lady has a nicer house than my parents do.