So where does this lady fall in the "personal responsibility" scale?

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

I don't know about you, but from a young age we've been taught who is responsible for what in a marriage.

Ahh, so that bitch should just get back in the kitchen and leave the money to the man? I'm surprised he let her leash out enough for her to get to the bank for the closing. I mean, there must have been dishes or laundry to do!

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

I don't know everything. That's why, when it comes to the big financial shit, I pay someone who does.

I have a CPA do my taxes because I did my own and got back $200 and a CPA did them and found $2000 I missed.

I paid a lawyer to review the first house I almost bought. Good thing too, because he gave me advice that ended up making me walk away. It was 12 years ago so I forget the exact number, but I believe I gave him $350 to have him tell me "don't buy that house." I had friends tell me "so you wasted $350?!?" Uhh, no. I paid $350 to make sure it was a good deal. It wasn't. That $350 was incredibly valuable, otherwise I would have bought a house with a huge problem.

I paid a lawyer to review the mortgage shit (for the 2nd house I wanted, the one I ended up buying) and be at the closing because all that shit is written so the layperson can't understand it. It's a good thing he was there, too, because the ex-husband of the woman who we bought the house from showed up and demanded half of the proceeds. If it was just my wife and me we would have been lost, and probably wouldn't have bought the house. But the lawyer we brought got it straightened out. Again, minimal lawyer fee = insurance.

I pay a financial planner (well, not pay directly but I invest through him so he gets 0.5%) because when I did my own I wasn't making as much as what he demonstrated he could make for me.


In other words, would you go to court without a lawyer? No? Then why would you go to a closing without one (or bring the papers to a lawyer to review)? You're putting yourself on the line for HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars. Another $200 or so is insurance that it all goes right. The idea that "not everyone thinks that way" is bullshit. If a bank yelled out the window "come in and get your free money" and said "just sign here" my first question would be "what does this say?" and "where is the copy for my lawyer to read?" If I didn't and I got fucked it's MY fault.

And while all these assistants for people like you and I are affordable for us, they still don't promise ANYTHING in the end. They could be corrupt, incompetent or both. Also, hiring people like these are our first thought because of our life experience. We KNOW to do these things because our family and friends have all done it. If we didn't have those experiences to draw from, it wouldn't be on the forefront of our minds. I am sure you'll say "bullshit" but it is true. In my opinion, people like you and I are a minority in the home buying arena. I think the industry took advantage of people that are NOT like you and I.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

Ahh, so that bitch should just get back in the kitchen and leave the money to the man? I'm surprised he let her leash out enough for her to get to the bank for the closing. I mean, there must have been dishes or laundry to do!

Right, lets exaggerate the stance but I promise you that MOST of us only have to look at our parents and grandparents for examples. While times have changed for a decent amount of households, there are still a majority of cultures in this country that live in that situation. The man is the breadwinner, responsible for most financial decisions...the woman raises the kids and contributes by running the house.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

And while all these assistants for people like you and I are affordable for us, they still don't promise ANYTHING in the end. They could be corrupt, incompetent or both.

If the CPA is corrupt or incompetent then he loses his license and can't be a CPA any more and I can sue him if he screws me. If a lawyer is corrupt or incompetent then he loses his license and can't be a lawyer any more and I can sue him if he screws me.

It's insurance. Sure I could get the guy who sucks or is just about to retire and steal all the money, but then again I picked the ones I picked because of references from other people and after talking with them. Again, knowledge is insurance.

Also, hiring people like these are our first thought because of our life experience. We KNOW to do these things because our family and friends have all done it. If we didn't have those experiences to draw from, it wouldn't be on the forefront of our minds. I am sure you'll say "bullshit" but it is true.

Bullshit.

In my opinion, people like you and I are a minority in the home buying arena. I think the industry took advantage of people that are NOT like you and I.

"The industry" didn't take advantage of anyone without that person's permission.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Right, lets exaggerate the stance but I promise you that MOST of us only have to look at our parents and grandparents for examples. While times have changed for a decent amount of households, there are still a majority of cultures in this country that live in that situation. The man is the breadwinner, responsible for most financial decisions...the woman raises the kids and contributes by running the house.

.......................and we're right back to "so now ignorance *IS* an excuse."

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

.......................and we're right back to "so now ignorance *IS* an excuse."

No, inexperience.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

If the CPA is corrupt or incompetent then he loses his license and can't be a CPA any more and I can sue him if he screws me. If a lawyer is corrupt or incompetent then he loses his license and can't be a lawyer any more and I can sue him if he screws me.

Which costs money.

Originally Posted by 7960

It's insurance. Sure I could get the guy who sucks or is just about to retire and steal all the money, but then again I picked the ones I picked because of references from other people and after talking with them. Again, knowledge is insurance.

Because you are surrounded by people WITH the experience.

Originally Posted by 7960

Bullshit.

Saw that coming. It doesn't counter a thing.

Originally Posted by 7960

"The industry" didn't take advantage of anyone without that person's permission.

That's completely not true. Answer this. You are all for personal responsibility...do you feel that any of these businesses have to have ANY responsibility? Where does their responsibility begin or end? You are acting like they can do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight or responsibility.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Because you grew up in that world. A lot of people that got fucked over in this crisis had hardly any experience in the world of credit, banking, and loans. Nobody is saying it is an "excuse" either. It's just a fact and it's why these situations have a great deal law and regulation surrounding them. On top of that, it's a shame that you would like to blame your fellow man for everything than the businesses that could be taking advantage of them. You approach every single situation like EVERYONE should know what you do or solve their issues like you do. That's just not reality.

it IS reality.

sorry, you don't understand this then you don't need to be buying a house. end of story. if you are dumb enough to sign anything willy nilly without a third party reading it for the biggest purchase of your life you deserve to get hosed.

[hsmith]

I just can't grasp this mentality. It boggles my mind that it is so pervasive throughout our society.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

No, inexperience.

I have no experience buying anything big like a house, but I know enough to go to someone who does.

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me for lacking mental fortitude

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Which costs money.

If you are spending $250,000 on a house and can't afford $2000 for a lawyer to review everything (which is about $1800 too much), you can't afford the house.

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That's completely not true. Answer this. You are all for personal responsibility...do you feel that any of these businesses have to have ANY responsibility? Where does their responsibility begin or end? You are acting like they can do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight or responsibility.

they are responsible. they are responsible for fraud if they ask you to forge documents. but when it comes down to it, you are responsible for your own actions

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by hsmith

it IS reality.

sorry, you don't understand this then you don't need to be buying a house. end of story. if you are dumb enough to sign anything willy nilly without a third party reading it for the biggest purchase of your life you deserve to get hosed.

And that type of person is the MAJORITY in this country. It has nothing to do with being "dumb." They are just inexperienced. It is pounded into their heads that renting is stupid and buying a home is the American dream...so doesn't it seem logical that people will do anything to make that happen?

I bought my first house when I was 20 years old. I had no clue about anything. I had no lawyer. I did no research. I just did it. Luckily it didn't ruin me. I did however start to learn from people that it was the wrong way to do it. It's called learning from experience.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

No, inexperience.

"I fucked up and took and equity loan and blew it all. Since I've never done this before can I have a do-over?"

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

That's completely not true. Answer this. You are all for personal responsibility...do you feel that any of these businesses have to have ANY responsibility? Where does their responsibility begin or end? You are acting like they can do whatever the fuck they want with no oversight or responsibility.

They have oversight. That oversight defines their responsibility........but the PERSON asking for the money is responsible to make sure s/he knows what's in the paperwork and knows the consequences.

I can't figure out how to say this any other way. She took $450,000, that's FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS, and she didn't pay a lawyer $200 to review the paperwork first??

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

"I fucked up and took and equity loan and blew it all. Since I've never done this before can I have a do-over?"

I never said "get a do-over."

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960

They have oversight. That oversight defines their responsibility........but the PERSON asking for the money is responsible to make sure s/he knows what's in the paperwork and knows the consequences.

I can't figure out how to say this any other way. She took $450,000, that's FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS, and she didn't pay a lawyer $200 to review the paperwork first??

You keep saying "she" but I don't think we know the detailed story.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

You keep saying "she" but I don't think we know the detailed story.

I know the details I need.

Originally Posted by article

When she was laid off in February

Weeks later, with bills piling up and in need of food for her family, this middle-class mother did something she never thought she would do: She went to a food bank.

It was Good Friday,

A former loan processor, Guerrero knows all about that

She used her tax refund to help pay many of her bills for the first two months,

She was a loan officer so if anyone should have known how shitty it is to take $450k in equity and take out an interest only mortgage it was her. Also, the article said she got laid off in February and she was broke on Good Friday. That's March 21st. She had ZERO savings. She used her tax refund to pay some bills and when that was gone she was broke.

How many signs do you need? We're not talking about some stupid housewife who's usually chained to her stove. She was a LOAN OFFICER!

[7960]

Oh, and btw, when she's talking about leaving her tiffany bracelet and coach pocketbook in the car before going in the food bank...............yeah, that's when I stopped watching.

From $70K to food bank, one family's struggle - CNN.com

My wife doesn't have a tiffany bracelet or a coach pocketbook. Know why? Because WE LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS.

I can't believe that fucking douche wants people to feel bad that she is "going to extreme measures" by <gasp> having to take off her tiffany bracelet before begging for food!!

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by 7960