So where does this lady fall in the "personal responsibility" scale?

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by article

From $70K to food bank, one family's struggle

By Thelma Gutierrez and Wayne Drash
CNN


ALTADENA, California (CNN) -- When she was laid off in February, Patricia Guerrero was making $70,000 a year. Weeks later, with bills piling up and in need of food for her family, this middle-class mother did something she never thought she would do: She went to a food bank.

It was Good Friday, and a woman helping her offered to pay her utility bill.

"It brought tears to my eyes, and I sat there and I cried. I was like, 'This is really where I'm at?' " she told CNN. "I go 'no way;' [but] this is true. This is reality. This is the stuff you see on TV. It was hard. It was very hard."

Guerrero is estranged from her husband and raising her two young children. She's already burned through her savings to help make ends meet, and is drawing unemployment checks. She has had to take extreme measures to pay for her interest-only mortgage of $2,500 a month. In fact, her mother moved in with her to help pay the bills.

Guerrero even applied for food stamps, but was denied.

"I never used the system. I've been working since I was 15-and-a-half. I needed it now and it turned me down," she said.

Stories like Guerrero's are becoming more common as middle-class Americans feel the pinch of an economic downturn, rising gas prices and a housing crunch, especially in a state like California that has been rocked by foreclosures.

On Wednesday, a key government report on the battered housing market found new home sales fell to their lowest level in 13 years in February, suggesting the nation's housing market is still struggling.

Americans also have been attending in large numbers foreclosure fairs where mortgage lenders, financial planners and counselors offer tips to hard-hit homeowners.

"Our economy is struggling, and families in the 'Inland Empire' and across the nation are hurting," California Rep. Joe Baca said, referring to an area of Southern California in his district.

"Our housing market is in a state of crisis due to rampant abuses of sub-prime lending, and unemployment is rising. At the same time, the cost of necessities such as gas, healthcare, and education continue to rise."

Daryl Brock, the executive director of Second Harvest Food Bank in California's San Bernardino and Riverside counties, said his organization supplies food to more than 400 charities in metro Los Angeles, from homeless shelters to soup kitchens to an array of food banks. While the majority of people they help are working poor families, he said they have seen some major changes.

In the last 12 to 18 months, Brock said, the agencies he supplies have begun seeing more middle-class families coming to their doors.

"Our agencies have said there is an increasing number of people coming to them for help," Brock told CNN by phone. "Their impression was that these were not people they normally would have seen before. They seemed to be better dressed. They seemed to have better cars and yet they seemed to be in crisis mode."

He added, "The only thing they can do is give us anecdotal evidence that they think it's because of the sub-prime mortgage meltdown and the housing crisis."

A former loan processor, Guerrero knows all about that, although so far she has been able keep her house.

She used her tax refund to help pay many of her bills for the first two months, but now that money's gone.

She says she's now in a middle-class "no-man's-land."

"It just happened so fast. It happened in a matter of -- what -- two months," she said.

She's eager to get back to work and to hold onto her home until the market turns. But for this single mom, every day it becomes harder to hang on.

"It's just depressing," she said. "For me, I just don't want to get out of bed, but I have to. That's my hardest thing. I have to."

This is all her fault? She is completely responsible for her situation?

[A_C_E]

1.) She should have gotten another job by now. Going from 70K/year to being unemployed for almost two months doesn't make a lot of sense. If she had the skills to work her way up, she should have gotten another job by now. Especially if she's pressed for money, she shouldn't be holding out for the perfect job, and should take what's offered to her.

2.) I'm loath to blame the banks for their mortgage practices, her payment of which is obviously eating away at her savings. That said, since they trade in a lot of public and governmental securities, and offer some government-backed loans for home purchases, a little more oversight might not be the worst thing in the world.

All that said, 85% her fault.

[WickedLou9]

not that getting laid off was her fault, but the interest only mortgage of 2500 a month sounds like she bought a house that was probably 3-4 times more expensive than she could really afford. Yea, it's california, and thier prices are outrageous. Maybe they bought the house when she was still married and had two incomes to rely on. I think people really thought that they could live right up to thier means and not really save alot. Buy that million dollar home, get expensive cars. don't put aside 6 months of living expenses. Spend it all.
She didn't put aside 6 months of expenses. Frankly I don't know how you could afford 2500 a month on 70k a year. I think even if she had made all the right choices she would be hurting right now, but some of this pain she is going though is self inflicted. I would say 50% her fault, 50% unfortunate turn of events.

[JaJae]

I don't see how someone making $70k a year could be hitting food banks after just weeks. She lost her job last month and claims to have gone through her savings to have kept her out of the food bank. Apparently she didn't have enough. Let's not forget she's collecting unemployment as well during this time.

I'm not saying it's her fault she got laid off, but she should have prepared for the possibility which it seems she did not. She should have at least had a months worth of savings...
So while she's not completely responsible for her situation if you had to put the blame on someone who is it going to be? Is it our fault? Is it her employer's fault they couldn't afford to pay her? You don't know the details of the situation, all we do know is that this woman didn't have anything to fall back on. If I were making $70k a year I can guarantee you I wouldn't be going to food banks and crying to CNN after a few weeks of not finding a new job.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I don't see how someone making $70k a year could be hitting food banks after just weeks. She lost her job last month and claims to have gone through her savings to have kept her out of the food bank. Apparently she didn't have enough. Let's not forget she's collecting unemployment as well during this time.

I'm not saying it's her fault she got laid off, but she should have prepared for the possibility which it seems she did not. She should have at least had a months worth of savings...
So while she's not completely responsible for her situation if you had to put the blame on someone who is it going to be? Is it our fault? Is it her employer's fault they couldn't afford to pay her? You don't know the details of the situation, all we do know is that this woman didn't have anything to fall back on. If I were making $70k a year I can guarantee you I wouldn't be going to food banks and crying to CNN after a few weeks of not finding a new job.

She's also the one refusing to get a new job with a pay cut.

Yea, she might not make the same amount, but it's better than sitting on her ass and whining about the American economy screwing her over. Get a job, stop taking unemployment, start paying your bills, stop complaining.

As left as I may be, I have no sympathy for sob stories like this. I have no respect for people who CAN work but instead choose to complain while sitting on their asses. If she was working and was STILL having trouble? Well, then maybe we have a problem. But now all we have is one woman whining.

Blaming the system is just a way for you to admit your lazy and unwilling to work, hard or otherwise, and try and get some benefits from people feeling sorry for you, instead of rolling up your sleeves and getting to work to fix your situation.

God, I hate sounding like a libertarian.

[hsmith]

Since liberals think this is so bad, why aren't they lining up to help themselves? So much talk about "doing something" then why aren't they whipping out their own check books and helping people? Oh it is right, more big talk.

Back to point. Wou is right. $70,000 a year, using the "what you can afford formula" of 3x your salary that works out to a $210,000 mortgage. Plugging $2500 into a calc, she is in a house that is around $500,000. So, she is quite out of her league with what she can afford.

Sure, it is bad for her. I dread to be in that situation. But I am not her fallback. She clearly should have had more money saved up before she went and bought the house if something went wrong.

[7960]

She has had to take extreme measures to pay for her interest-only mortgage of $2,500 a month.

Pretty low, if she's still living in a house with a $2500/month interest-only mortgage........pretty fucking low.

[loudrich]

From the original housing bubble board


The Housing Bubble Blog

one of the original posters dug into the story:

The Housing Bubble Blog » From Fat City To Crisis Mode In California


Someone looked up Guerrero on the local assessors database:

Here’s a little more information about Patricia Guerrero’s financial situation from public records (LA County Assessor and Recorder):
The 2,948 square foot house on a quarter acre lot was built in 1948.
She and her estranged husband Ray acquired the house, apparently from HIS PARENTS Israel and Esther Guerrero, in August 2002, at which time the debt load on the property was about $157,000.
Ray and Patricia took out a conventional fixed-rate first trust deed on the property on 8/14/2002 for $202,000.
I’ll spare you all the gory details of their various refinancings and equity loans, but the present note from 8/21/2006 is for $649,999.
So, it looks like they bought the place for a sweetheart deal and proceeded to jack themselves up to the tune of about $450,000 over a period of just 4 years.

[northhunter]

That's the problem with spending or living like there's no tomorrow, eventually tomorrow does in fact come.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by loudrich

From the original housing bubble board


The Housing Bubble Blog

one of the original posters dug into the story:

The Housing Bubble Blog » From Fat City To Crisis Mode In California



Someone looked up Guerrero on the local assessors database:

Here’s a little more information about Patricia Guerrero’s financial situation from public records (LA County Assessor and Recorder):

The 2,948 square foot house on a quarter acre lot was built in 1948.

She and her estranged husband Ray acquired the house, apparently from HIS PARENTS Israel and Esther Guerrero, in August 2002, at which time the debt load on the property was about $157,000.

Ray and Patricia took out a conventional fixed-rate first trust deed on the property on 8/14/2002 for $202,000.

I’ll spare you all the gory details of their various refinancings and equity loans, but the present note from 8/21/2006 is for $649,999.

So, it looks like they bought the place for a sweetheart deal and proceeded to jack themselves up to the tune of about $450,000 over a period of just 4 years.

So they cashed out every bit of equity in thier home and spent it all. they deserve what they got.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

So they cashed out every bit of equity in thier home and spent it all. they deserve what they got.

But now we're gonna have to start paying for her because she's a "victim."

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

So they cashed out every bit of equity in thier home and spent it all. they deserve what they got.

exactly.

Sounds like it was exaclty the case if that info were true.

$400,000 in equity pissed away and nothing to show for it.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by JaJae

But now we're gonna have to start paying for her because she's a "victim."

I would love to know how prevalent this is throughout the entire housing "meltdown"

How many people used their "houses like ATM's" and are now ass end up in their houses, now can't make payments, and want a handout.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by hsmith

I would love to know how prevalent this is throughout the entire housing "meltdown"

How many people used their "houses like ATM's" and are now ass end up in their houses, now can't make payments, and want a handout.

I think alot of people did it, but hopefully people cashed out equity to pay off other loans, or possibily make home improvements. But I am sure that some people thought it was free money and went out and bought a mercedes and a plasma TV.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

I think alot of people did it, but hopefully people cashed out equity to pay off other loans, or possibily make home improvements. But I am sure that some people thought it was free money and went out and bought a mercedes and a plasma TV.

A lot did. Waaayyyyy too many people got caught up in the housing craze and took advantage of sharking procedures to use every bit of equity in their homes as an ATM.

The "problem" is that Joe American didn't realize that it was a bubble, and that it was going to come crashing down at some point. The banks did, but didn't really care--if you defaulted on your loan, they would just take your house and re-sell it. No big deal.

Lending firms were advertising mortgages on TV the past few years like that fucking Gazelle exercising thing with that goofy-looking dude. Joe American sees he ad, thinks "holy shit I can get $70,000 in free money," calls the firm, gets the loan, and goes out and buys a Benz. It doesn't bother him, because he isn't really paying all that much more per month than he used to.

And now he doesn't have a house But it's not our task to assign fault to that.

[7960]

Originally Posted by loudrich

From the original housing bubble board


The Housing Bubble Blog

one of the original posters dug into the story:

The Housing Bubble Blog » From Fat City To Crisis Mode In California


Someone looked up Guerrero on the local assessors database:

Here’s a little more information about Patricia Guerrero’s financial situation from public records (LA County Assessor and Recorder):
The 2,948 square foot house on a quarter acre lot was built in 1948.
She and her estranged husband Ray acquired the house, apparently from HIS PARENTS Israel and Esther Guerrero, in August 2002, at which time the debt load on the property was about $157,000.
Ray and Patricia took out a conventional fixed-rate first trust deed on the property on 8/14/2002 for $202,000.
I’ll spare you all the gory details of their various refinancings and equity loans, but the present note from 8/21/2006 is for $649,999.
So, it looks like they bought the place for a sweetheart deal and proceeded to jack themselves up to the tune of about $450,000 over a period of just 4 years.

Excellent first post. You are going to be welcome here.

[Kytro]

Regardless of the reason for the situation, the problem is the expectation to continue life with little interruption.

I suspect she ignored some warning signs that what she was doing wouldn't continue to work. The situation changes, you have to also.

[kombayn]

Yes, it is her fault for not saving her money properly. I'm sick of people blaming corporations for cut-backs on jobs. People lose jobs, it happens. It's her fault for not looking for another one immediately, go on Craigslist.org and find one. It's no one else's fault for her bad money management.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by loudrich

From the original housing bubble board


The Housing Bubble Blog

one of the original posters dug into the story:

The Housing Bubble Blog » From Fat City To Crisis Mode In California


Someone looked up Guerrero on the