All this talk about the rich needing to pay more or how they dont pay their fair share is bullcrap. Sure there are a few exceptions, Buffet beign one of them. But if he wants to pay higher taxes why does he continue to take deductions year in and year ...
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03-29-2008, 05:05 PM
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| Administrator  libertarian Oklahoma 
| Tax Burden, new statistics released by the IRS in Money Magazine...v.richpaymore All this talk about the rich needing to pay more or how they dont pay their fair share is bullcrap. Sure there are a few exceptions, Buffet beign one of them. But if he wants to pay higher taxes why does he continue to take deductions year in and year out? Seems a bit hypocritical to me  Remember these stats are EARNERS, NOT households, it includes salaried and wage based workers as well as the entire workforce including part time workers. Also this ONLY includes the federal income tax. It does not include medicare/medicaid, social security, state and local taxes and any other tax you can think of. Here's the stats Lowest 20% Average Income: 10,400 77% pay NO taxes 8% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 832 dollars based on the average income Second 20% Average Income: 21,200 54% pay NO taxes 11% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 2332 dollars based on the average income Middle 20% Average Income: 34,500 30% pay NO taxes 16% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 5520 dollars based on the average income Fourth 20% Average Income: 56,300 8% pay NO taxes 19% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 10697 based on the average income Next 15% Average Income: 96,700 2% pay NO taxes 21% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 20307 based on the average income Next 4% Average Income: 201,000 <1% pay NO taxes 23% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 46230 based on the average income Top 1% Average Income: 978,000 <1% pay NO taxes 25% average tax burden for those who do pay taxes or 244,500 based on the average income I'll try to snap a pic of the magazine page here in a bit  | ||||
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03-29-2008, 05:14 PM
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| Bokonist  Independent Kansas City
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 
So this doesn't include capital gains? | ||||
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03-29-2008, 05:18 PM
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| Political Genius  Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| The tax cut dilemma for Democrats has always been the need to give them to the people who actually pay the taxes! 
__________________ Sock It To Me!  "Bureaucracy is a Parasite that Preys on Free Thought and Suffocates Free Spirit!" - Douglas Adams | ||||
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03-29-2008, 06:11 PM
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| Leges sine Moribus Vanae  Liberal University City, Philly and Buffalo
| Who ever tried to make the claim that the rich don't pay more in taxes than anyone else?  Also, including part-time workers skews the numbers a bit. Not very much, but it has some impact. | ||||
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03-29-2008, 06:21 PM
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| George W Bush, God's Tool  Independent ny
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 Fair share = paying for the good stuff our country (as a collection of individuals + the government) gave you: unprecedented protection of your business and investments, the ease to start a business, a highly skilled and educated work force to help you earn more money etc etc.
If it wasn't for this, most of those people who would not be earning nearly as much, its a cost of doing business. That being said, sure taxes are too high but that is the reality we live in, that is the fault of a bloated and inefficient government but the fact is the rich should pay their fair percentage share because they are reaping the LEGAL benefits of being in America more than those at the bottom. What's unfair is comparing the upper 5% to the lower 40%. In NY if you make less than 25K your in poverty, you need that money just to ensure you have food and shelter - they shouldn't be heavily taxed or else how will they graduate into the higher income levels to enjoy the things (the stuff I stated above) the people in the higher income level enjoys?
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03-29-2008, 08:33 PM
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| Perpetual Noob Independent
| I would be curious to see just how progressive the system is if you add in capital gains, social security & medicare anyone seen such a study? | ||||
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03-29-2008, 08:34 PM
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| Dirty Liberal  Democrat South Jersey
| thats all nonsense based on w-2 income and it doesn't take into account capital gains. do we really have to rehash this argeument that we have had eleventy billion times? this is not new data. this is the same old crap we always hear. | ||||
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03-29-2008, 09:45 PM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 capital gains rate is 15%
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03-29-2008, 09:45 PM
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| Administrator libertarian Oklahoma
| Originally Posted by Phantom SS and medicare are a flat rate up to 94k/yr or so
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03-29-2008, 10:39 PM
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| Banned  Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| ofcourse the poor pay sales tax...and the rich SHOULD pay more taxes, not just because it's "moral" but because they use our government more than anyone else...food stamps/welfare make up like 1% of the budget...medicare/SS/medicaid are used by middle class families and even some rich families ive known use those systems because they stayed rich by being cheap...aka having their poorer relatives use public medical assistance But let's go back, like I said, the rich use more of the government than an average joe does, so why SHOULDN'T they pay more? "Why shouldn't the American people take half my money from me? I took all of it from them." Edward Albert Filene Printing the very dollar bills with which people trade. Public roads. Rural electrification. Government subsidized telephone wiring. Satellite communications. Police protection. Military protection. A criminal justice system. Fire protection. Paramedic protection. An educated workforce. An immunized workforce. Protection against plagues by the Centers for Disease Control. Public-funded business loans, foreclosure loans and subsidies. Protection from business fraud and unfair business practices. The protection of intellectual property through patents and copyrights. Student loans. Government funded research and development. National Academy of Sciences. Economic data collected and analyzed by the Bureau of Economic Analysis. Federal Emergency Management Agency. Public libraries. National Biological Service. National Weather Service Public job training. That's just the surface...the court system we pay for in this country is almost completely devoted to businesses and corporate problems I could easily imagine taking the land I have, and starting a farm, and I'd live fine... The US economy and all those billionaires with their money in the dollar/stocks/bonds would be completely fucked if the US government just pulled the plug on everything tommorow Why do you think the rich don't all gang together and start giving to libertarians? They know that if government really were taken out of their lives, they'd be failures | ||||
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03-30-2008, 04:46 AM
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| Left Wing Hack  Democrat Hastings, NE
| A figure that only shows the progressive taxes and not the various regressive taxes seems a bit useless to me when comparing the tax burdens of various income brackets. | ||||
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03-30-2008, 09:46 AM
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| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95 Right. which would shift thier effective tax rate DOWN if they get a significant portion of thier money from cap gains.
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03-30-2008, 03:50 PM
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| Banned Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by WickedLou9 Hedge fund managers don't count, because...they make an obscene amount of money...and poor people who pay sales tax "Don't pay any taxes"
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03-30-2008, 04:53 PM
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| Leges sine Moribus Vanae Liberal University City, Philly and Buffalo
| Originally Posted by Thorgrim The managers don't make that much seeing as it takes them years before they can become qualified investors.
But yea, I know what you mean. | ||||
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03-30-2008, 05:43 PM
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| Political Genius Republican Yorba Linda Ca.
| Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95
I think Obama wants it to be 25%?  | ||||
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03-30-2008, 08:00 PM
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| Bokonist Independent Kansas City
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON why is it not just taxed as income
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03-31-2008, 07:04 AM
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| Dirty Liberal Democrat South Jersey
| Originally Posted by RMNIXON Why is that bad? thats similar to the tax rate that is paid on all other income.
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03-31-2008, 07:32 AM
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| For those about to rock...  libertarian Atlanta, GA
| Originally Posted by nbiggershaft The argument for most is that the money is already taxed. CGT is a second tax on pretaxed money. This is easily seen when you think about a company performing a stock buyback. They are using cash on hand to increase the value of stocks by buying up a shit ton of it. The cash on hand they have has been applied to their company taxes which they have or will pay. They buy stock from someone who then has to pay taxes on the money he got over what he paid for it, eg., the money the company is giving him extra. Thus it gets sent through the ringer again.
__________________ http://www.corruptapedia.com/ You can call me Aaron Burr the way I drop Hamiltons. | ||||
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03-31-2008, 10:53 AM
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| Banned Progressive Philadelphia, PA
| Originally Posted by Ardentfrost You have to understand the problem that is unique to hedge fund managers...
They really screw up...pay nothing in taxes or really to anyone They really get lucky, they only pay 15% on taxes for a huge amount of money | ||||
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