Endangered species-the middle class

[7960]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Yea we got winners and losers in our capitalistic system so why all the yelling for the losers we have highway overpasses to live under and food kitchens to go to or welfare checks to cash of course that is the ones at the very bottom of the totem pole. All the other losers are pushing them down. Since we have this system we should thank our lucky stars if we are winners, and don't think so bad of the losers and helping them it is all part of the game we play.

This doesn't even deserve polite....................... your reply is stupid. My entire point to the post you replied to was that HE DIDN'T READ THE PAPERWORK BUT SIGNED IT. Your post has nothing to do with the fact that he signed up to spend tens of thousands of dollars and didn't understand the agreement he was making. This isn't winners or losers, this isn't "other losers pushing him down." This is someone spending what (at the time) was probably half his yearly salary on a car and not bothering to find out what was going to happen when their deal was over.

If that screwed him then too bad for him. And next time you reply maybe you should address the post you're replying to.

[Fed Up]

Originally Posted by 7960

HE DIDN'T READ THE PAPERWORK BUT SIGNED IT.

My take on it is that a contract is a contract and once signed, the parties to the contract have to adhere to it as written. If there is disagreement down the road, there is usually language in the contract that stipulates the disagreement be resolved in via arbitration.

99.9% of the people, if not more, didn't read the contract in all my years of selling. I only had one person read the contact, a Harvard Phd.

Most people just "trust" the person who is doing the selling (that's why sellers learn NLP techniques to get people to buy!).

Has anyone who purchased a mutual fund read the prospectus? The funny thing is, the prospectus can say anything it wants and if the client signs that they have read the prospectus, then what is in the prospectus is part of the contract. The prospectus could say that the managers of the fund get to vacation in Vegas one weekend a year, complete with all the gambling, booze and hookers they want...., all at the expense of the investors. Guess what? Nothing that can be done about it.

Just my 2 cents...

Fed Up

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by bheld

Wow, based on what data?

Here is some data:

CensusScope -- Household Income

Notice how the lowest incomes have had a substantial decrease in 10 years and after Welfare Reform. They should be filling up if all we have is Walmart Jobs, hamburger flippers, and credit card debt. Where is the biggest jump? The $50,000 to $74,999 bracket. It looks like most people in the $35,000 bracket went up not down. The rich did get richer, but so did a whole lot of other people. Also look at the number of actual households, not just the percents. The numbers are up not down.

And more current data:

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

$50,000 to $75,000 is at 22%

$75,000 to $100,000 is at 20%


I still don't see any dying middle class working at Walmart!

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Has anyone who purchased a mutual fund read the prospectus? The funny thing is, the prospectus can say anything it wants and if the client signs that they have read the prospectus, then what is in the prospectus is part of the contract. The prospectus could say that the managers of the fund get to vacation in Vegas one weekend a year, complete with all the gambling, booze and hookers they want...., all at the expense of the investors. Guess what? Nothing that can be done about it.

I spent an entire summer reading prospectuses for mutual funds, variable annuities, variable life ins contracts etc. for a certain market regulator. Fun stuff. It's crazy what some of the things say, especially when they become 100+ page documents. Some funny, some almost unbelievable when you map out the fees, some just make no sense at all.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by bheld

Wow, based on what data?

Based on just about every single data point available from the IRS and BLS.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Fed Up

Has anyone who purchased a mutual fund read the prospectus? The funny thing is, the prospectus can say anything it wants and if the client signs that they have read the prospectus, then what is in the prospectus is part of the contract. The prospectus could say that the managers of the fund get to vacation in Vegas one weekend a year, complete with all the gambling, booze and hookers they want...., all at the expense of the investors. Guess what? Nothing that can be done about it.

Just my 2 cents...

Fed Up

Then dont invest in that fund. Fund prospectus from good fund companies wont say that.

[7960]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Then dont invest in that fund. Fund prospectus from good fund companies wont say that.

Wasn't his point that nobody reads them so they woulnd't know?

[kombayn]

I really don't like hearing about how the middle class is dying. My mom was making $250,000 a year, when the market started to decline (after 9/11) they offered her a two year deal at $150,000 a year. She felt she was entitled to what was owed to her and she declined the offer and after that she struggled for the next 3 years behind on bills etc. That's her fault, I have had to teach her better money management. Now she's making $150,000 a year again, but at what cost? $20,000 of debt. Not smart money practice.

Plus, people with degrees don't always get the best paying jobs. I always recommend someone making the 1 year sacrifice as an intern and work your way up in the company. They don't care if you have a degree or not, because they'll teach you the vital steps in your job to help you grow. I know quite a few people who did internships and now they make $80,000 a year after working there way up the company.

Hard work pays off. All these people bitching about how they were tricked etc. They want free hand-outs and that just helps push us into a coming depression, if people would just take responsibility and be smart they wouldn't be in these situations. People want to bash our country so much, but why do people still flock here like parasites? Because we're still the best governed nation on the planet.

Government has been trying to pick it apart, one by one, could you imagine a Government Controlled United States? I would fuckin' puke. It'd be non-stop praising of George W. Bush and his policies.

[7960]

Originally Posted by kombayn

I really don't like hearing about how the middle class is dying. My mom was making $250,000 a year, when the market started to decline (after 9/11) they offered her a two year deal at $150,000 a year. She felt she was entitled to what was owed to her and she declined the offer and after that she struggled for the next 3 years behind on bills etc. That's her fault, I have had to teach her better money management. Now she's making $150,000 a year again, but at what cost? $20,000 of debt. Not smart money practice.

What did she think she was owed, exactly?

Plus, people with degrees don't always get the best paying jobs. I always recommend someone making the 1 year sacrifice as an intern and work your way up in the company. They don't care if you have a degree or not, because they'll teach you the vital steps in your job to help you grow. I know quite a few people who did internships and now they make $80,000 a year after working there way up the company.

In the *VAST* majority of cases people with degrees get better jobs and make better money for the rest of their lives.

Did you mean if you intern *as*well*as* get a degree that you'll make more money than if you just get a degree? I'm not sure I'd argue that point, but to say "people with degrees don't always get the best paying jobs" is almost always wrong.

Government has been trying to pick it apart, one by one, could you imagine a Government Controlled United States? I would fuckin' puke. It'd be non-stop praising of George W. Bush and his policies.

I don't understand this point.

[kinggovernor]

the real problem with the middle class is that everyone thinks they are in it. So if they see other "middle class" people, who really make more money then they do, with X good they want it.

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by 7960

They can't afford it any more but they're driving BMWs and buying $3k plasma TVs and living in McMansions at the upper limit that their credit will allow them to buy.

Hmmm, last time I checked, there was no BMW in my driveway. Actually, it's an 6 year old Dodge neon. No plasma TV either. And my McMansion is a 2 room efficiency apartment I share with my disabled wife.
What crime did I commit? I had to leave a good paying job I had worked at for 15 years because of health problems. Now, I make $10 an hour as a delivery driver, and I am lucky to have that.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

Hmmm, last time I checked, there was no BMW in my driveway. Actually, it's an 6 year old Dodge neon. No plasma TV either. And my McMansion is a 2 room efficiency apartment I share with my disabled wife.
What crime did I commit? I had to leave a good paying job I had worked at for 15 years because of health problems. Now, I make $10 an hour as a delivery driver, and I am lucky to have that.

first two things that jump to mind:

1. sorry but you're not middle class so I wasn't talking about you, or
2. are you hurting because you're living on debt?

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

Wasn't his point that nobody reads them so they woulnd't know?

I read mine

[7960]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I read mine

nobody = *almost* nobody

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

Hmmm, last time I checked, there was no BMW in my driveway. Actually, it's an 6 year old Dodge neon. No plasma TV either. And my McMansion is a 2 room efficiency apartment I share with my disabled wife.
What crime did I commit? I had to leave a good paying job I had worked at for 15 years because of health problems. Now, I make $10 an hour as a delivery driver, and I am lucky to have that.

if you are the only one working and you make 10 dollars an hour, that is not middle class.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

nobody = *almost* nobody

I read that shit, you're right most dont but I believe if you're going to invest in something you should know about it. I dont memorize them but I read through them once a year when they're sent to my house. If people dont read them as said earlier they can't bitch about things they didn't know.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

if you are the only one working and you make 10 dollars an hour, that is not middle class.

That would be considered working poor if there's two people in the house, or poverty if there's 3 or 4.

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by 7960

What did she think she was owed, exactly?

In the *VAST* majority of cases people with degrees get better jobs and make better money for the rest of their lives.

Did you mean if you intern *as*well*as* get a degree that you'll make more money than if you just get a degree? I'm not sure I'd argue that point, but to say "people with degrees don't always get the best paying jobs" is almost always wrong.

I don't understand this point.

She felt she was still owed $250,000 a year. But the business couldn't afford it at the time.

And people with degrees, don't always get the best paying jobs. My mom only had a GED and she started out as a receptionist and worked her way up 10 years later to get where she is now.

It's not a guarantee that you're going to get one of the best jobs in the business (really depends on the field and if you get a Master's etc. People with Master's definitely get better jobs.). It is a guarantee though that you'll have a nice fat debt from your student loan.

As for the last point, I'm just saying, could you imagine a Government Controlled Media that other counties such as Turkey, China, Pakistan, India, North Korea etc. have. It would make me puke, because the Bush Administration would want to make everything seem that it was cool.

All I'm really saying people without degrees, if they put in hard work, they'll get a good paying job. I just hate see how poverty stricken areas complain and want free hand-outs, they're only making the situation worse for themselves.

[7960]

Originally Posted by kombayn

She felt she was still owed $250,000 a year. But the business couldn't afford it at the time.

Well, she learned the hard way that a business doesn't owe someone anything.

And people with degrees, don't always get the best paying jobs. My mom only had a GED and she started out as a receptionist and worked her way up 10 years later to get where she is now.

Go her. But she's in the minority. Let me guess, she's in real estate or insurance?

It's not a guarantee that you're going to get one of the best jobs in the business (really depends on the field and if you get a Master's etc. People with Master's definitely get better jobs.). It is a guarantee though that you'll have a nice fat debt from your student loan.

I said "In the *VAST* majority of cases people with degrees get better jobs and make better money for the rest of their lives." Are you really going to dispute that? Do you honestly believe that people with a HS diploma have anywhere near the earning potential of someone even with just a bachelor's?

So this is wrong?

WASHINGTON (AP) — If you are a high school student thinking about college, consider this: Someone with a bachelor's degree earns nearly $1 million more over his or her lifetime than a high school graduate. A Census Bureau survey released Thursday shows a college graduate can expect to earn $2.1 million working full-time between ages 25 and 64, which demographers call a typical work-life period. A master's degree-holder is projected to earn $2.5 million, while someone with a professional degree, such as a doctor or lawyer, could make even more — $4.4 million.

In contrast, a high school graduate can expect to make $1.2 million during the working years, according to the bureau report that tracked the influence of education on lifetime earnings.

USATODAY.com - Amount of schooling affects earning potential

I didn't say there aren't a few cases of people working their way up...there are. But for every one that did it there are thousands who barely make ends meet.

BTW, I went to college and graduated without a loan, so no that's not a guarantee.