Environmentalism is an alternative reality

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Jesus H Christ, how old is A_C_E again? Even as a young, recently married individual with no kids I can't respect what you're saying about stay at home moms/dads. The whole idea behind free choice is that you CAN do that if you choose. You ARE being a productive member of society by actually spending the time and effort to raise your children. I find it unacceptable that people rely on schools and daycare to raise their kids, of course that isn't to say that they cannot hold jobs AND raise their kids at the same time. Regardless, it is a choice that should garner respect in society.

I'm pretty sure he's 19, maybe just recently turned 20.

[Ardentfrost]

Oh, I think at 20 I was saying the same thing.

[7960]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Is it wrong that I lose respect for people who are content to be stay-at-home moms and dads?

I can't help it. I just don't see homemaking as a productive use of one's time in modern society. In my mind, it shows no ambition and little exercise of one's autonomy in a free state. You can do anything that you want, yet you choose to stay at home with the children all day long? I just can't understand it.

Again, this is my own personal opinion that I hold for any number of reasons. I do not speak for anyone else.

The most important thing you're ever going to do is raise a child (hopefully) to be a productive member of society. Taking a few years to stay at home with them is a small price to pay. The difference definitely shows in the way my kids act and the way friends' who both work and pick their kid up at 5:59 from daycare act.

[Publius]

Not to mention the fact that many successful business ventures have begun with a stay at home parent just tooling around doing shit while their kids are napping. Even beyond the obvious productivity of raising a child there are other methods of being productive that are explored by many stay at home parents.

In short, yes ace it is wrong that you feel that way and you're probably outing yourself as a little ignorant in doing so.

[Thorgrim]

(BTW I never was interested in Wharton)

However, I will have to agree with the crowd here on about you being out of your element on the whole parenting thing

You have no idea how time consuming many parental aspects are that you simply CANNOT contract out, not unless you're a millionare who WANTS to be a stranger to their kids

We are neither

IF, and I say IF, I decide in the end to be the one who sacrifices his career, I will be making it possible that she can can home after a 20 hour shift, passout, wakeup, and be able to see our kids without having to deal with 2000 random things that always occur with raising American kids, I actually would be enabling her to see her kids with quality time, otherwise she'd be so busy every minute she'd have with them she'd be going over their homework, or papers to be signed for this and that, etc etc...and it'd be even worse in the earlier stages

I would be 100% contributing to my family, and through being a loyal taxpayer and voter, my country...but family is the most important thing...

[thewise1]

Man, reading ACE's comments about his education really makes me look forward to the next few years as he moves out into the business world on his own. It's going to be interesting to watch the evolution take place.

[7960]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Man, reading ACE's comments about his education really makes me look forward to the next few years as he moves out into the business world on his own. It's going to be interesting to watch the evolution take place.

I went to college and quit and worked construction for a few years. I went back to college when I was 22/23.......I realized very quickly none of those little shits had any idea what the real world was like, including many of the professors.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Publius

I'm pretty sure he's 19, maybe just recently turned 20.

I turn 20 tomorrow

edit: I've made it clear time and again that A) I am young, and B) I hold some seemingly radical beliefs.

I would appreciate it if one is not seen as an excuse for the other all the time.

[A_C_E]

On an unrelated note, Publius, I'm doing the playoff hockey pool again. Same rules as last year (10 forwards, 4 D, 2 goalies, 1 player from each team). Rosters are due by Tuesday the 8th at Noon eastern; e-mail them to me at fireeyes111@yahoo.com

Feel free to spread that around to anyone who is interested.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

The most important thing you're ever going to do is raise a child (hopefully) to be a productive member of society. Taking a few years to stay at home with them is a small price to pay. The difference definitely shows in the way my kids act and the way friends' who both work and pick their kid up at 5:59 from daycare act.

Maybe I'm just reading too much personal experience into the issue.

As someone who was in daycare from the time I was 2 years old, with a single parent working 60-hour weeks (most of my friends also had single parents or 2-parent households where both worked) it didn't seem to detrimentally affect any of us. But I suppose I should refrain from judgment until having my own kids (which won't be for a long, long time).

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Man, reading ACE's comments about his education really makes me look forward to the next few years as he moves out into the business world on his own. It's going to be interesting to watch the evolution take place.

It's really not going to be that big of a deal.

I'll graduate, get a management consulting job, move to New York or DC, get killed with 75-hour weeks my first three years, go back for an MBA, return to the consulting firm with a low-mid 6-figure salary, and start looking for the right woman to settle down with (assuming she isn't found already ).

Doesn't sound that complicated

[7960]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Maybe I'm just reading too much personal experience into the issue.

As someone who was in daycare from the time I was 2 years old, with a single parent working 60-hour weeks (most of my friends also had single parents or 2-parent households where both worked) it didn't seem to detrimentally affect any of us. But I suppose I should refrain from judgment until having my own kids (which won't be for a long, long time).

I see kids who were "raised in a daycare" and raised with a parent at home.......the daycare kids, more often than not, have some issues that the parent-at-home kids don't.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

I see kids who were "raised in a daycare" and raised with a parent at home.......the daycare kids, more often than not, have some issues that the parent-at-home kids don't.

I'm not going to say that isn't true, because obviously I have no authority to speak on what you do or do not observe in your daily life.

But, purely out of curiosity, what sort of issues are you talking about?

[7960]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

I'm not going to say that isn't true, because obviously I have no authority to speak on what you do or do not observe in your daily life.

But, purely out of curiosity, what sort of issues are you talking about?

I'll start by again saying this doesn't apply to every kid.

Mostly I see discipline issues. I see kids who have no problem telling their mom/dad no, or where to go, or what they're going to do. I see kids who don't respect authority or adults. Granted a good chunk of it may come from the parent, not wanting to be "the bad guy" and say no to a kid they just dumped in a daycare all day, but either way the outcome is the same.........a kid that a lot of people say "needs a good slap." And I'm not one to advocate hitting a child.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 7960

I'll start by again saying this doesn't apply to every kid.

Mostly I see discipline issues. I see kids who have no problem telling their mom/dad no, or where to go, or what they're going to do. I see kids who don't respect authority or adults. Granted a good chunk of it may come from the parent, not wanting to be "the bad guy" and say no to a kid they just dumped in a daycare all day, but either way the outcome is the same.........a kid that a lot of people say "needs a good slap." And I'm not one to advocate hitting a child.

Not really going to argue with this, because I think you may be right in a lot of cases.

But let me say I was never one to blindly accept what my parents told me. If they told me to do something I didn't like, or didn't want, I'd let them know I wasn't happy about it. I'd almost always do it anyway, but I'd let them know I wasn't thrilled.

Call that a discipline issue if you want, it didn't seem to detrimentally affect me at all

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I don't try to shit on him but I don't understand how this is supposed to be a policy class yet he is advocating vigilantism and openly breaking the law.

How could he get away with this we are a nation of laws and no matter what we think we must obey them it is what allows us to live together in relative peace, and for him to advocate breaking the law to student is criminal.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

I cannot wait to be done with this and I can't believe that this indoctrination is required for me to get my degree.

I am amazed you were able to avoid a situation like this for so long. Obviously not a California University!

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

How could he get away with this we are a nation of laws and no matter what we think we must obey them it is what allows us to live together in relative peace, and for him to advocate breaking the law to student is criminal.

You can't fucking be serious.

[RMNIXON]

Originally Posted by 7960

I went to college and quit and worked construction for a few years. I went back to college when I was 22/23.......I realized very quickly none of those little shits had any idea what the real world was like, including many of the professors.

You can't blame kids these days. What little I knew about economics after high school I learned mostly from my father. So much for the public schools.

But these professors work in very isolated and protected job environments. There are no consequences to teaching unworkable ideas or crackpot theories. In the real world you rise or fall in that hard reality.

The good news is that most young people grow up and get over these professors.