anti-Allen ad abuot Body Armor *youtube*

[Thorgrim]

YouTube - Body Armor

Wow, best ad yet IMO this election

I really think the reagan ads praising Webb (D) combined with stuff like this, is going to doom Allen, come October, this race might have turned from a 3rd tier race to the 2nd or 3rd most likely to switch in the country

"this is life, this is death"

hard stuff

[Ardentfrost]

I like the part where he shot the gun

Effective ad though. Wish I knew more about WHY Allen voted against that bill though...

[beez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

I like the part where he shot the gun

Effective ad though. Wish I knew more about WHY Allen voted against that bill though...

Probably some sort of amendment that had nothing to do with the body armor (or perhaps the armor itself was an amendment to a bill he wouldn't vote fore). Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by beez

Probably some sort of amendment that had nothing to do with the body armor (or perhaps the armor itself was an amendment to a bill he wouldn't vote fore). Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah, that's why I hate these sorts of ads. Remember the National ID bill that rode along with a huge "give the troops lots of money so they're better equipped" bill? There were something like 5 people in all of congress that voted against it, I assume because of National ID. I guarantee they are getting hell for voting against that bill, eventhough they were probably FOR the funds appropriation.

It's fucking sad man.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

It's fucking sad man.

Agreed, but unfortunately too much is at stake for the Democrats to allow the GOP to be the only ones to launch these types of effective ads.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by motivez

Agreed, but unfortunately too much is at stake for the Democrats to allow the GOP to be the only ones to launch these types of effective ads.

Oh, I agree. I don't think either side SHOULD do it, but that's politics. It's a problem with the way bills can be introduced and passed, not with the resulting "smear campaigns."

[beez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Oh, I agree. I don't think either side SHOULD do it, but that's politics. It's a problem with the way bills can be introduced and passed, not with the resulting "smear campaigns."

Yeah. I'd want some sort of limitation on the subject matter of amendments or even a ban on amendments themselves. It's stuff like this that makes the concept of 'respect the office' seem very silly to me.

[Phantom]

"Va. Senate Race Goes Negative on 1979 Essay"

In the Washingtonian magazine article, "Women Can't Fight," the ex-Marine Webb wrote of the brutal conditions during the Vietnam War and argued against letting women into combat. Allen's campaign zeroed in on passages in which Webb described one of the academy's coed dorms as "a horny woman's dream" and said that he had never met a woman he "would trust to provide . . . combat leadership."

Linda G. Postenrieder, a 1982 Naval Academy graduate and a registered Democrat from California, said the article "infected the brigade with hate and divisive anger." Lisa Stolle, an academy graduate from Virginia Beach, said that for women, Webb's article "was like throwing gasoline" on a fire.

Webb, a Naval Academy graduate who was Navy secretary under President Ronald Reagan, issued a statement saying he was sorry "to the extent that my writing subjected women at the Academy or the active Armed Forces to undue hardship."

But his campaign also responded aggressively, accusing Allen of opposing the admission of women to the Virginia Military Institute and of once having accepted membership into an exclusive club while he was governor.

On Wednesday, Allen's campaign went on the offensive. The five women said they were among the first to attend the Naval Academy, which began admitting women in 1976. In Webb's article, he argued women cannot physically endure combat training and military-style hazing. He also raised concerns about fraternization. "Men fight better without women around," Webb said.

"This article was brandished repeatedly. [Men] quoted and used it as an excuse to mistreat us," said Kathleen Murray, a 1984 academy graduate who rose to commander in the Navy and retired to Norfolk.

entire article here: Va. Senate Race Goes Negative on 1979 Essay - washingtonpost.com

This is getting nasty, but it keeps me entertained I guess. Both of them are losers IMO.

[avsp]

just an aside
Isnt it about time that the ability to build 'christmas tree' legislation was stopped

its clearly damaging the democratic process

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

Agreed, but unfortunately too much is at stake for the Democrats to allow the GOP to be the only ones to launch these types of effective ads.

You act as if the Democrats are just now on the smear campaign as a result of the Republicans. This is what happens during every election. Both sides take cheap shots.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by JaJae

You act as if the Democrats are just now on the smear campaign as a result of the Republicans. This is what happens during every election. Both sides take cheap shots.

The Republicans have been really the only ones good at getting this style of message out in recent years.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

The Republicans have been really the only ones good at getting this style of message out in recent years.

I think that's a matter of personal perspective.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

The Republicans have been really the only ones good at getting this style of message out in recent years.

They both do it. Maybe the dems do more questionable, shitty stuff the GOP can use for ammunition.

[motivez]

I'm not saying they both dont do it, but Democrats haven't been as effective or eager to get out there and level this same type of attack with the organization, etc, that the Republicans have in the past few years.

And, I don't know that I'd say having a different opinion is really questionable / shitty.. at least, shitty enough to portray them as hating america, not wanting to protect america, loving / sympathizing with terrorists, yadda yadda yadda..

[Ardentfrost]

At this point, I think it's harder to do this to dems than reps... I would guess (this is just a guess) that more riders have gone under the cover of "Support our troops" bills than anything else. With the heavily republican-based congress currently, I'd bet that those riders were conservative pet projects that the dems didn't want. So, when dems stood up against the riders, the reps will just turn around and say how they voted against the troops.

This is all speculation, but it makes sense.

This also isn't to say that it won't happen in both directions, just that it seems it'll be easier for it to happen in one direction than the other.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

At this point, I think it's harder to do this to dems than reps... I would guess (this is just a guess) that more riders have gone under the cover of "Support our troops" bills than anything else. With the heavily republican-based congress currently, I'd bet that those riders were conservative pet projects that the dems didn't want. So, when dems stood up against the riders, the reps will just turn around and say how they voted against the troops.

This is all speculation, but it makes sense.

That's definitely possible. If it's happening, dems should be on TV every day pointing out "they proposed a bill to do _________ for soldiers but then diverted $________ dollars to build a _________."

That shit pisses me off. They should be on TV every fucking day pointing it out. A bill to fund armor for soldiers shouldn't also include a rider to buy tractors for farmers in Idaho (made up example). And if it the dems got on the news/tv/paper and shoved it in everyone's faces I think people would react.

I hate to say this but I'm guessing the reason they're not doing that is becuase when the pendullum swings back their way then they won't be able to do it. I hope I'm wrong and I hope I see a dem on TV tonight saying "......I'm here to expose the pet projects......." and rip the GOP a new one.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

That's definitely possible. If it's happening, dems should be on TV every day pointing out "they proposed a bill to do _________ for soldiers but then diverted $________ dollars to build a _________."

That shit pisses me off. They should be on TV every fucking day pointing it out. A bill to fund armor for soldiers shouldn't also include a rider to buy tractors for farmers in Idaho (made up example). And if it the dems got on the news/tv/paper and shoved it in everyone's faces I think people would react.

I hate to say this but I'm guessing the reason they're not doing that is becuase when the pendullum swings back their way then they won't be able to do it. I hope I'm wrong and I hope I see a dem on TV tonight saying "......I'm here to expose the pet projects......." and rip the GOP a new one.

I agree, it seems that would be in their best interest.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by 7960

That's definitely possible. If it's happening, dems should be on TV every day pointing out "they proposed a bill to do _________ for soldiers but then diverted $________ dollars to build a _________."

That shit pisses me off. They should be on TV every fucking day pointing it out. A bill to fund armor for soldiers shouldn't also include a rider to buy tractors for farmers in Idaho (made up example). And if it the dems got on the news/tv/paper and shoved it in everyone's faces I think people would react.

I hate to say this but I'm guessing the reason they're not doing that is becuase when the pendullum swings back their way then they won't be able to do it. I hope I'm wrong and I hope I see a dem on TV tonight saying "......I'm here to expose the pet projects......." and rip the GOP a new one.

The problem though is that our elected officials would prefer to spend less time working and more time politicizing. They don't have enough time to write a bill out for everything and go through the voting process on each bill.

Personally I say being a congressmen is a privilege. You should be voting 3 days a week 9 - 5 and spend 2 days a week writing your own bills and doing local stuff.

Many of these congressmen don't do enough.

[infinite loop]

anyone catch this? YouTube - George Allen's 'Macaca' Remark

nice damage control at the end there..

[hsmith]

Allen and Webb are both douche canoes.