The School Crotch Inspector

[RockPusher]

The School Crotch Inspector - Ayn Rand Admirers at The Atlasphere



There are two kinds of people in the world: the kind who think it’s perfectly reasonable to strip search a 13-year-old girl suspected of bringing ibuprofen to school, and the kind who think those people should be kept as far away from children as possible.

The first group includes officials at Safford Middle School in Safford, Ariz., who in 2003 forced eighth-grader Savana Redding to prove she was not concealing Advil in her crotch or cleavage.
It also includes two judges on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit, who last fall ruled that the strip search did not violate Savana’s Fourth Amendment rights.

The full court, which recently heard oral arguments in the case, now has an opportunity to overturn that decision and vote against a legal environment in which schoolchildren are conditioned to believe government agents have the authority to subject people to invasive, humiliating searches on the slightest pretext.
Safford Middle School has a “zero tolerance” policy that prohibits possession of all drugs, including not just alcohol and illegal intoxicants but prescription medications and over-the-counter remedies, “except those for which permission to use in school has been granted.”

In October 2003, acting on a tip, Vice Principal Kerry Wilson found a few 400-milligram ibuprofen pills (each equivalent to two over-the-counter tablets) and one nonprescription naproxen tablet in the pockets of a student named Marissa, who claimed Savana was her source.
Savana, an honors student with no history of disciplinary trouble or drug problems, said she didn’t know anything about the pills and agreed to a search of her backpack, which turned up nothing incriminating. Wilson nevertheless instructed a female secretary to strip search Savana under the school nurse’s supervision, without even bothering to contact the girl’s mother.
The secretary had Savana take off all her clothing except her underwear. Then she told her to “pull her bra out and to the side and shake it, exposing her breasts,” and “pull her underwear out at the crotch and shake it, exposing her pelvic area.” Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference between drug warriors and child molesters.
“I was embarrassed and scared,” Savana said in an affidavit, “but felt I would be in more trouble if I did not do what they asked. I held my head down so they could not see I was about to cry.”

She called it “the most humiliating experience I have ever had.” Later, she recalled, the principal, Robert Beeman, said, “he did not think the strip search was a big deal because they did not find anything.”
The U.S. Supreme Court has held that a public school official’s search of a student is constitutional if it is “justified at its inception” and “reasonably related in scope to the circumstances which justified the interference in the first place.” This search was neither.
When Wilson ordered the search, the only evidence that Savana had violated school policy was the uncorroborated accusation from Marissa, who was in trouble herself and eager to shift the blame. Even Marissa (who had pills in her pockets, not her underwear) did not claim that Savana currently possessed any pills, let alone that she had hidden them under her clothes.
Savana, who was closely supervised after Wilson approached her, did not have an opportunity to stash contraband.

As the American Civil Liberties Union puts it, “There was no reason to suspect that a 13-year-old honor-roll student with a clean disciplinary record had adopted drug-smuggling practices associated with international narcotrafficking, or to suppose that other middle-school students would willingly consume ibuprofen that was stored in another student’s crotch.”
The invasiveness of the search also has to be weighed against the evil it was aimed at preventing. “Remember,” the school district’s lawyer recently told ABC News by way of justification, “this was prescription-strength ibuprofen.”

It’s a good thing the school took swift action, before anyone got unauthorized relief from menstrual cramps.

[RockPusher]

The priesthood of the school systems understand that they have the right to strip search your little girl in look in her little panties for goodies.

It comes with the chest puffing smugness instilled by the academic system that convinces these small minded twerps that they are so smart and noble that ethics and law does not apply to them in their implementation of social controls for the good of everybody - and zero tolerance for individual rights.

[kombayn]

Eww... Really? Someone did that? Can we just go find them and shoot 'em?

[Rino]

Boy oh boy, if something like that happened to one of my children, then a Principal would have my size 16 all over his back side.

But if I were to do that, then I would be deemed a criminal.

Sad, really sad.

[kinggovernor]

I think that the school has no right to do that. They should have to call the police if they suspect drug activity, and then the police are required to call her parents.

[7960]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

The priesthood of the school systems understand that they have the right to strip search your little girl in look in her little panties for goodies.

It comes with the chest puffing smugness instilled by the academic system that convinces these small minded twerps that they are so smart and noble that ethics and law does not apply to them in their implementation of social controls for the good of everybody - and zero tolerance for individual rights.

honestly, shut up.

This was a few administrators with a serious god complex, but it would not be the norm. I've been in the office with kids who I *KNEW* had drugs on them, but if the principal didn't find what he was looking for in their pockets, bag, or locker then he either called the parents or the cops. This isn't "the priesthood" or anything instilled by "the academic system." It's four assholes that happen to work in a school and some judges who are about to get their decision overturned.

[7960]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Eww... Really? Someone did that? Can we just go find them and shoot 'em?

they should be.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by 7960

This isn't "the priesthood" or anything instilled by "the academic system." It's four assholes that happen to work in a school and some judges who are about to get their decision overturned.

Since I take peoples' posts at face value and can find no reason to doubt your sincerity, based on what you have related in previous threads I would consider you a good teacher and a person with a fair grasp of individual rights regarding most political stances that you take.

If you do not realize how much of a rarity this makes you, I suggest it is because you are not one to pick at and judge the beliefs and actions of others.

That in itself is a noble characteristic, however society may be better served to peer into the system more critically.

I have been around enough to see systematic abuses in several schools across the country.

Regarding the priesthood.... I am using Dewey's description, which not incidentally is what St Simon referred to the proper role for pedagogues, that being priests in the 'New Scientific Religion'.

In fact, this view was passed from St Simon, the creator of Sociology and an early proponent of universal compulsory education, down through his intellectual progeny such as Marx on to Munsterburg, Harris and Dewey and Hitler.

As far as religion, students of teacher education are taught to revere Dewy who's CREED contains the following:

"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth. In this way the teacher is always the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of heaven." ~ John Dewey



And it is not hard to imagine how children would ALLOW THEMSELVES TO BE STRIPPED LIKE CHATTEL when they are brought up in a system that began a few generations ago by the US government whose Commissioner of Education, Harris, wrote the following:

Ninety-nine [students] out of a hundred are automata, careful to walk in prescribed paths, careful to follow the prescribed custom. This is not an accident but the result of substantial education, which, scientifically defined, is the subsumption of the individual.
–The Philosphy of Education (1906)

The great purpose of school can be realized better in dark, airless, ugly places.... It is to master the physical self, to transcend the beauty of nature. School should develop the power to withdraw from the external world.
–The Philosphy of Education (1906)

[motivez]

I don't see how you can connect this incident to the broader issues you have with the education system honestly.

I don't think this exemplifies anything that's a systematic problem with public education.. this could have just as easily happened at a private school.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by motivez

I don't think this exemplifies anything that's a systematic problem with public education.. this could have just as easily happened at a private school.

What is systematic is the subsumption of the individual. That was what the US Government through its Commissioner of Education, William Harris, built the public school system to accomplish.

Once the individual is reduced to being an implement, this is a perfect example of the things that happen. The child yields her flesh to the school administrator. She was not taught that she is a person and that she has rights. She was not taught that it is wrong for an authority figure to strip you nude and inspect you like a piece of meat. She was taught that the school represents authority, and authority is right. She was taught that she cannot resist authority.

B.S. regarding this happening in a private school. The school administrators and faculty involved would be prosecuted and likely worse. Also, private schools view the parents as customers who they depend on for revenue. If a public school is known to do something like this, an out-of-business sign would be on the front door within two semesters.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

What is systematic is the subsumption of the individual. That was what the US Government through its Commissioner of Education, William Harris, built the public school system to accomplish.

Once the individual is reduced to being an implement, this is a perfect example of the things that happen. The child yields her flesh to the school administrator. She was not taught that she is a person and that she has rights. She was not taught that it is wrong for an authority figure to strip you nude and inspect you like a piece of meat. She was taught that the school represents authority, and authority is right. She was taught that she cannot resist authority.

The vast majority of 13 year olds aren't going to be as philosophical about their rights as you seem to think they would be.

Of course the school represents authority, she is an underage child and the parents entrust the school with overseeing, disciplining, etc, their children while in their custody for the day.

I doubt very seriously she was taught she can't resist authority, more that the parents told her to respect the authority the school has over her, ie: mind your teachers and behave or there will be consequences.. which is not bad parenting..

Certain people with power over someone else have always abused that authority (don't talk to strangers, no means no, etc), that's why there's molestation, etc.. it doesn't always happen inside a school, that was just the setting for this incident.

Originally Posted by RockPusher

B.S. regarding this happening in a private school.

Really?

With lax oversight, private schools answer to own rules | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
Co-Owner of Private School Charged With Child Abuse
Principal 'molested schoolgirls' - National - theage.com.au

Behold, the power of

Now that that's debunked, we can move on.

Originally Posted by RockPusher

The school administrators and faculty involved would be prosecuted and likely worse. Also, private schools view the parents as customers who they depend on for revenue. If a public school is known to do something like this, an out-of-business sign would be on the front door within two semesters.

And so should they be. Who's arguing that the school was right for what they did?

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by motivez

The vast majority of 13 year olds aren't going to be as philosophical about their rights as you seem to think they would be....
I doubt very seriously she was taught she can't resist authority, more that the parents told her to respect the authority the school has over her, ie: mind your teachers and behave or there will be consequences..

I can speak for myself and others that are familiar to me when I say that from an early age, it was instilled upon me that nobody had the right to touch me if I did not want them to. It was one of the first lessons, reinforced by base instinct that has me recoil to unwanted touch.

I was also taught that nobody had the right to look at me nekkid... and that it was wrong to sneak looks at nekkid people. Again the base instincts helped reinforced this lesson.

I was taught to respect authority to the extent of its power. This lesson was drilled in later - like grade school. I was taught that I have to do what a policeman or teacher says. That lesson came with the firm understanding that the policeman cannot just take me away for no reason, he has to have cause. I was taught early on that no teacher or policeman can abuse me. Shoot me, punch me, touch my schmeckle etc....

NOBODY could command my sister to strip. She is too proud.

Nobody could have done that to my wife.


We were raised and educated differently.

Slave children in ancient Rome would not have resisted. They were raised as slaves.

which is not bad parenting..

If a parent doesn't tell their child that no authority figure has the right to kidnap or rape them, they are indeed VERY bad parents.

..... it doesn't always happen inside a school, that was just the setting for this incident.

No, that was the JUSTIFICATION for this incident. When a catholic priest strips a little boy, he is prosecuted and or sued for the molestation. When a school illegally detains, searches and violates a girl sexually (stripping a child naked against their will is RAPE under our law), it is a sanctified act that is not considered a crime.

With lax oversight, private schools answer to own rules | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
Co-Owner of Private School Charged With Child Abuse
Principal 'molested schoolgirls' - National - theage.com.au

Behold, the power of

Now that that's debunked, we can move on.

Dude, Australia doesn't count. Their toilets spin backwards and they ride kangaroos.



And so should they be. Who's arguing that the school was right for what they did?[/quote]

[7960]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Since I take peoples' posts at face value and can find no reason to doubt your sincerity, based on what you have related in previous threads I would consider you a good teacher and a person with a fair grasp of individual rights regarding most political stances that you take.

If you do not realize how much of a rarity this makes you, I suggest it is because you are not one to pick at and judge the beliefs and actions of others.

That in itself is a noble characteristic, however society may be better served to peer into the system more critically.

While I appreciate the compliment, my feelings and actions aren't as rare as your position would need them to be. Sorry but you can't dismiss me by praising me as different than the bad people you want to complain about.

I have been around enough to see systematic abuses in several schools across the country.

And i've been around enough to see "systematic abuses" are not systematic, and they're more rare than you're assuming.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by 7960

While I appreciate the compliment, my feelings and actions aren't as rare as your position would need them to be. Sorry but you can't dismiss me by praising me as different than the bad people you want to complain about.

You mentioned in a previous post that you place value on Dewey's contributions and thoughts. Do you agree with this part of his creed?

"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth. In this way the teacher is always the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of heaven." ~ John Dewey

[7960]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

You mentioned in a previous post that you place value on Dewey's contributions and thoughts.

No I have not.

Do you agree with this part of his creed?

"Every teacher should realize he is a social servant set apart for the maintenance of the proper social order and the securing of the right social growth. In this way the teacher is always the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of heaven." ~ John Dewey

I believe every teacher should realize he is a social servant whose goal is to guide kids through intellectual, physical, and social growth. IMO an extreme minority of teachers in school today are looking to be "the prophet of the true God" to their classes, and if they are it's because of their own belief and not for any "systematic" reasons.

You're really going to dig up a 100+ year old quote and believe that's how it still is?

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by 7960

No I have not.

I believe every teacher should realize he is a social servant whose goal is to guide kids through intellectual, physical, and social growth. IMO an extreme minority of teachers in school today are looking to be "the prophet of the true God" to their classes, and if they are it's because of their own belief and not for any "systematic" reasons.

You're really going to dig up a 100+ year old quote and believe that's how it still is?

My mistake regarding your posts. It was another poster who mentioned Dewey.

Dewey is relevant today because he is credited as the architect of our modern school system. You cant get through primary or secondary teacher education without being taught about him. I have to say he is generally viewed as an icon by teachers.

[7960]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

My mistake regarding your posts. It was another poster who mentioned Dewey.

Dewey is relevant today because he is credited as the architect of our modern school system. You cant get through primary or secondary teacher education without being taught about him. I have to say he is generally viewed as an icon by teachers.

all except that "you're teaching god's soldiers" part....that's not taught so much any more.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by 7960

all except that "you're teaching god's soldiers" part....that's not taught so much any more.

Heheh... That makes sense.

[A_C_E]

Two things, the first as a simple word of warning (to be taken at face value and nothing more):

1.) Be careful about where you cite your sources from. A post ripped directly from a community of Ayn Rand worshippers is going to be immediately dismissed by some posters for having a deep and systemic bias in one very clear direction. It is to always be taken with a grain of salt--a quote from the NY Times, CNBC, a local newspaper, etc. are often much more dependable.

2.) I doubt that this is a systematic problem. Once every four or five years we hear about a very inappropriate search popping up in a random school. Considering most states mandate a 180-day school year, and there are tens of thousands of public schools in America, once every four/five years hardly seems like a systematic problem. At the same time, the girl's parents should have taught her that no one can make her undress without her permission. I both understand and assume that at 13 years old she is too young to understand her rights regarding school-zone searches (different than in privately owned property), but I would still hope mommy and daddy had told her she doesn't have to get naked for anyone.

In any case, this decision is about to get overturned, so no worries from the peanut gallery.

Full disclosure: For the record, I support the ability of school staff to search students' lockers if they suspect drug activity. The students should know that lockers aren't their property and anything they keep in them isn't protected. Not sure where I fall on bags/backpacks--One on hand, I want to say that students shouldn't be bringing any sort of contraband to school in the first place, and if they get caught, oh well. At the same time, backpacks are personal property, so idk.