I love the portrayal of Hamilton in that John Adams series.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Dumpy Dooby

If Adams hated Hamilton so much, then why did Adams join Hamilton's Federalist Party? Wouldn't it have made more sense for Adams to run on a platform that advocated Washington's anti-party position? I'm not sure about its accuracy, but the show depicts Adams as being anti-parties anyway. Why did he join one? And why was it Hamilton's if that was his enemy?

Because when the two parties formed, they had delegates pledging to vote for the party's candidate. He had to be in one of the parties or he would get no votes.

[Donkey®]

Originally Posted by Publius

I know that the book the series is based on is written mostly from the perspective of Adams, and Adams had a deep personal hatred of Hamilton, so I've been absolutely expecting him to be treated poorly in the series. I would expect nothing less.

Yes, Hamilton is the victim. It's strange that it seems like EVERYONE hated Hamilton for one reason or another. He seemed like a complete asshole to me.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Yes, Hamilton is the victim. It's strange that it seems like EVERYONE hated Hamilton for one reason or another. He seemed like a complete asshole to me.

I never said he was a victim. And Hamilton was actually very well-liked until he did a couple of things late in his career that turned Jefferson & Adams against him. He certainly was an asshole on many levels, but that doesn't diminish his skills as a statesman.

[Publius]

And we just watched part 5, and he really wasn't painted in any more poor a light than Jefferson was.

If telling the facts of what Hamilton did are painting him in a poor light, I guess he was then, and I'm not going to argue against facts. He did try to influence the electoral college to make sure Washington won unanimously and he did push for Pinckney because he didn't thing Adams could beat Jefferson. Both valid maneuvers on his part, the only reason they were so shocking is because it had no precedent in American politics.

Jefferson on the other hand is shown to be a naive Francophile that was a huge fan of people being slaughtered in the name of "revolution." The episode did a very good job pointing out (for those that know the history) that Adams had a much greater understanding of where France was heading than Jefferson did.

I honestly think the series is much kinder to Hamilton than to Jefferson. Hamilton comes off as a bit of an asshole sure, but he WAS a bit of an asshole. And he did maneuver behind the scenes, that was how he worked politics. On the other hand it paints Jefferson as a naive radical that couldn't see the writing on the wall, and a bit of a sniveling whiner at that.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by Publius

And we just watched part 5, and he really wasn't painted in any more poor a light than Jefferson was.

If telling the facts of what Hamilton did are painting him in a poor light, I guess he was then, and I'm not going to argue against facts. He did try to influence the electoral college to make sure Washington won unanimously and he did push for Pinckney because he didn't thing Adams could beat Jefferson. Both valid maneuvers on his part, the only reason they were so shocking is because it had no precedent in American politics.

Jefferson on the other hand is shown to be a naive Francophile that was a huge fan of people being slaughtered in the name of "revolution." The episode did a very good job pointing out (for those that know the history) that Adams had a much greater understanding of where France was heading than Jefferson did.

I honestly think the series is much kinder to Hamilton than to Jefferson. Hamilton comes off as a bit of an asshole sure, but he WAS a bit of an asshole. And he did maneuver behind the scenes, that was how he worked politics. On the other hand it paints Jefferson as a naive radical that couldn't see the writing on the wall, and a bit of a sniveling whiner at that.

Why must you always bring up Jefferson in order to make Hamilton look better? No one in the thread brings him up, yet you always do when someone talks about Hamilton in a less than flattering light...

Hamilton was vastly overrated...smart yes, but his polices were not some breakthrough innovations that would never of happened if he wasn't there

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Why must you always bring up Jefferson in order to make Hamilton look better? No one in the thread brings him up, yet you always do when someone talks about Hamilton in a less than flattering light...

Hamilton was vastly overrated...smart yes, but his polices were not some breakthrough innovations that would never of happened if he wasn't there

Lol, you're like me. Jefferson and Hamilton both had good and bad qualities. I'll not sack-ride either. But a few of us like to pick on Pub and Thomez and a few others who are Hamilton junkies. And I know a few Jeffersonian libertarians who I make fun of too.

[DosEquis]

Ironically...watching the show... i found myself on the jefferson side of things more often than not

[Donkey®]

Lawls @ Hamilton wanting to beat down secessionists and invade South America.

Lincoln + Warmonger + ever-expanding National Government = Hamilton.

[Dumpy Dooby]

@ Hamilton in this most recent episode. That was great. What a fucking turd.

[lew]

Originally Posted by Donkey®

Lawls @ Hamilton wanting to beat down secessionists and invade South America.

Lincoln + Warmonger + ever-expanding National Government = Hamilton.

[motivez]

Didn't get a chance to watch it last night, can't wait to get home

[David Octavius]

Wow, the series made him into a psycho...and he had way too much interest in the buttons of the new uniforms

[Publius]

Originally Posted by David Octavius

Wow, the series made him into a psycho...and he had way too much interest in the buttons of the new uniforms

Hamilton's obsession with the appearance of the uniforms is one of the reasons some historians think he was borderline homosexual (which I find plausible, but it also strikes me as horribly stereotyping of gay people ).

[Thorgrim]

Want to give us a refresher on why 1800 Hamilton was better than 1800 Jefferson?

I mean I agree, but I'm sure for reasons very different than yours

[Thorgrim]

I will say one thing about the show, it has a good intro...that's about it though

I'm no biographer, but I think it tries to canonize him in certain scenes and then throw in the occasional character flaw to make the audience think they are not elevating him to such a level...I find myself bored with it and I'm a historian...how sad

They should make HBO miniseries on these deserving Americans:
George Washington
John Marshall
John Quincy Adams
Daniel Webster
Sam Houston
Abraham Lincoln
William Jennings Bryan

possibly an hour special on Fisher Ames

[thewise1]

I would like one on Patrick Henry

[thewise1]

Actually...

Patrick Henry
Robert Fulton
All the naval battles of the war of 1812 and that era, along the lines of master and commander. What a fascinating period of history!
Marconi
James Watt
oh man I could go on I loved reading about these guys as kids

[Thorgrim]

I'm talking about politicians...and Patrick Henry could be wrapped up in an hour...John Adams at least had enough of a complicated family (his wife really was chill) and extremely long life of service...they could make a series of him...but PH? please

The ones I listed, except Ames and Houston, could easily make 7 episodes on HBO

[thewise1]

The book I read on him as a kid sure took longer than an hour to read

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

The book I read on him as a kid sure took longer than an hour to read

Yeah and the 3 Lord of the Rings books took me longer than 6 hours to read

You need a LOT of material to make something into a miniseries