A liberal against gun control

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by 7960

I've heard this before but I've never seen it backed up.

Can you prove that or is it just one of those "well they didn't attack us so it *must* have been because we're armed!" tihngs?

I would assume a myth. The japanese couldn't invade us, they had no where near the necessary manpower.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by 7960

I've heard this before but I've never seen it backed up.

Can you prove that or is it just one of those "well they didn't attack us so it *must* have been because we're armed!" tihngs?

Isoroku Yamamoto - Wikiquote

I would never invade the United States, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Isoroku Yamamoto - Wikiquote

I would never invade the United States, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

Not only is it Wikipedia, but there's no source listed for that quote on their page.

[7960]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Isoroku Yamamoto - Wikiquote

I would never invade the United States, there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

wow, thanks

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

Not only is it Wikipedia, but there's no source listed for that quote on their page.

I wanted to verify it so I searched around and found it listed on a few dozen other sites. Either they're all copying each other (possible) or it's actually true.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 7960

I wanted to verify it so I searched around and found it listed on a few dozen other sites. Either they're all copying each other (possible) or it's actually true.

The pages that show up are hardly reliable sources of information, aside from Wikipedia (somewhat), which admits its unsourced.

the full quote, and you get not many results, but the ones that do show up aren't legitimate historical websites:

wikipedia (unsoruced)
mises.org (uber-libertarian-fest,like those folks who all registered here the other day)
ubuntuforums, myspace, finalgear forums (cars), digg, comcast forums, and boardreader, which rips content from other sites

So, yeah.. I think it's more likely they all got it off Wikipedia.

I'm sure we'll show up soon.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by motivez

Not only is it Wikipedia, but there's no source listed for that quote on their page.

looking behind for history of the quote, google only finds it posted randomly on internet forums...looks really unreliable

be that as it may, everyone in Iraq is allowed an AK-47, that's significantly better than our nation as a whole for extreme gun rights, does anyone seriously think a country like China would have any problem invading Iraq?

[Ezra Smack]

A gun is a tool. Just like a hammer, a shovel or an axe. It is no better or no worse than the man who uses it. In areas of the world where guns are not avalable people kill each other with knives, clubs or rocks. The commonality of murder has much more to do with the charicter of the people than the instrument used. The crime of rape is rampant in the Congo yet exceedingly rare in japan. This is not because the men in Japan are not "armed".

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Robbery, North Philly? Never

If you don't think people with cash can get their hands on twenty AR-15s, you need to go out and explore the gun world a little

Seriously, some people here need to lay off the movies...home invasion in which you think a few seconds will decide whether you kill all the bad guys or be taken over?

You know the pro-gun movement has tens of millions of Americans who have been part of the movement for decades, I have yet to see fucking ONE account of someone who was the subject of a home invasion and they almost had their gun ready, but it took too long to get the trigger lock off and just 2-3 seconds before they could unlock it, the guy finally reached their bedroom and wounded him, and raped the family/usual home invasion stuff

I would bet a good chunk of change that it has never happened, ever, in the history of the United States...its so impractical

I think it's more likely that someone with two 9mms jumped sideways through the air in his house and killed a dozen gang members before he hit landed, or whatever else BS scenario some gun nuts dream up

Yeah, but these people who go out to buy AK's and shit like that are gang members. So they're going to get it from the black market anyways, what you're missing from my point is that if you want to buy a firearm like that legally. You can't just go out and say, "I need 20 AK-47's" you're using extremism to get your point across. It's not cut and dry like you make it out to be.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Yeah, but these people who go out to buy AK's and shit like that are gang members. So they're going to get it from the black market anyways, what you're missing from my point is that if you want to buy a firearm like that legally. You can't just go out and say, "I need 20 AK-47's" you're using extremism to get your point across. It's not cut and dry like you make it out to be.

why do you keep reading AR-15 as AK-47? the numbers are different and the letters are too

Anyway, it must be really difficult to find one these semi-automatic assault weapons...you'd have to know some shady people in the black market, or know really important connected people

DPMS "The Agency" Rifle Package AR-15 - .223 [DPMS RFA2-ACAR] : The Shooters Box, Online Store

Okay maybe not

[kombayn]

No. Again, you're not getting the point. I misread your post, but the fact remains you can't just go out and order 20 AR-15's from that website, they wouldn't allow that. You're trying to make it seem so cut and dry that a criminal can just go to this website and order as many as they like. The U.S. has a very strict background check policy when they sell weapons to citizens.

If someone wants to order a semi-automatic weapon, let them. As long as they have a clean record to do so. No one in their right mind is going to sell a semi-automatic weapon to a felon or a person with a criminal background history. It's not going to happen. You make it seem like people are just parading around streets killing people they see fit.

If you want to talk about gang violence that's a completely different story. But gang members have a much harder time getting access to weapons, which is why they go to a black market. That's why there needs to be regulation on the matter of holding people responsible for selling these weapons to criminals.

You just don't have faith in a private citizen and feel like you need to dictate what to do with there lives and money. But, we live in America and you don't have that right. I can take care of myself, thank you.

[Thorgrim]

I didn't say criminal...

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

Also, you can just go out and buy 20 AK-47s, if you've got the money for them.. I could drive over to my local gun shop and drive home with them today if I were at home. And if I had the money.

Someone who knows the gun world...thank you

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by kombayn

No. Again, you're not getting the point. I misread your post, but the fact remains you can't just go out and order 20 AR-15's from that website, they wouldn't allow that. You're trying to make it seem so cut and dry that a criminal can just go to this website and order as many as they like. The U.S. has a very strict background check policy when they sell weapons to citizens.

If someone wants to order a semi-automatic weapon, let them. As long as they have a clean record to do so. No one in their right mind is going to sell a semi-automatic weapon to a felon or a person with a criminal background history. It's not going to happen. You make it seem like people are just parading around streets killing people they see fit.

If you want to talk about gang violence that's a completely different story. But gang members have a much harder time getting access to weapons, which is why they go to a black market. That's why there needs to be regulation on the matter of holding people responsible for selling these weapons to criminals.

You just don't have faith in a private citizen and feel like you need to dictate what to do with there lives and money. But, we live in America and you don't have that right. I can take care of myself, thank you.

Actually, you can. There is no restriction (well depends on your state) on doing so.

But, AR15's aren't cheap and no one is legally buying them and giving them to their friends. Doing so is a straw purchase and is illegal if you are giving them to people who can't pass the background check.

The fact is, no one is legally doing it. Hell, no one is doing it illegally either going through a store. Going to rockriverarms.com and ordering 20 AR-15's would mean you would have used your credit card to do so. It means they would be shipped to a federal firearms dealer. It means you would have to go through the background check process. Your name is documented several places in the transaction along with the serial numbers. If they are used in crime, they WILL be traced back to you one way or another.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

looking behind for history of the quote, google only finds it posted randomly on internet forums...looks really unreliable

be that as it may, everyone in Iraq is allowed an AK-47, that's significantly better than our nation as a whole for extreme gun rights, does anyone seriously think a country like China would have any problem invading Iraq?

The Soviet Union had their asses handed to them by a bunch of Fins on skis with bolt action rifles and old vodka bottles filled with gasoline. They destroyed a massive number of tanks cut the infantry to shreds.

Germany never tried to mess with Switzerland.

Say what you like but the nations with highly armed citizenry don't get into wars often and rarely loose when they do.

Ask Israel. Ever seen the cute girlies walking around with M16s strapped. They will not be raped or mugged, and their nation will not be invaded despite the danger of the region

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Actually, you can. There is no restriction (well depends on your state) on doing so.

But, AR15's aren't cheap and no one is legally buying them and giving them to their friends. Doing so is a straw purchase and is illegal if you are giving them to people who can't pass the background check.

The fact is, no one is legally doing it. Hell, no one is doing it illegally either going through a store. Going to rockriverarms.com and ordering 20 AR-15's would mean you would have used your credit card to do so. It means they would be shipped to a federal firearms dealer. It means you would have to go through the background check process. Your name is documented several places in the transaction along with the serial numbers. If they are used in crime, they WILL be traced back to you one way or another.

That's good that you "know" it's never happened, without a shread of evidence

I'm also very comforted that after they use the ar-15s to murder dozens of people, then the guy who bought them would show up on a database, after he's probably already dead

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

The Soviet Union had their asses handed to them by a bunch of Fins on skis with bolt action rifles and old vodka bottles filled with gasoline. They destroyed a massive number of tanks cut the infantry to shreds.

Germany never tried to mess with Switzerland.

Say what you like but the nations with highly armed citizenry don't get into wars often and rarely loose when they do.

Ask Israel. Ever seen the cute girlies walking around with M16s strapped. They will not be raped or mugged, and their nation will not be invaded despite the danger of the region

No one messed with the swiss because of the terrain. They are surrounded by high mountain ranges on all sides.

[Thorgrim]

there is nothing accurate about his post lou

the USSR's army was pathetic when it faced Finland, the Germans tore it to pieces and were only able to put together a fighting force after mobilizing the entire country and holing up in huge cities and letting the cold and disease do their work

Swiss were left alone like Sweden because there was little advantage to destroying such a nation, Norway was taken out easily there is nothing more difficult about Sweden, Germany could have easily taken out the Swiss and Swedes before they invaded Russia

I like how "Israel will never be invaded" even though they have in the past multiple times

The Israeli army isn't that impressive, look at how they lost, TWICE in lebanon...the second time was particularly humiliating as they launched a full offensive which was ground to halt by religious fanatics

The Israeli army has won it's past wars for two reasons:
1) The pathetic nature and complete mess the Arab nations call their "armies"
2) Overwhelming air superiority and technological advantages

Seriously, it's like saying the Vietnamese had an amazing standing army because they defeated Cambodia

Cambodia's "army" was pathetic, Vietnam could never stand up to a China let alone a US on the open battlefield, they simply weren't that good...

The Israel army is the most over-rated in history, one of the great questions 100 years from now is that how Arabs wanted Israel to disappear so badly, yet they refused to unite in a real all out Arab war because they had a mythical fear of the IDF

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

No one messed with the swiss because of the terrain. They are surrounded by high mountain ranges on all sides.

I am positive that the terrain was a factor.... but since other alpine nations were occupied, and Finland and Norway were not exactly prairie lands, I do not believe this to be the sole factor.

Of course... it could have something to do with their assistance in money laundering too :-)

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

there is nothing accurate about his post lou

the USSR's army was pathetic when it faced Finland....

Uhh... yeah. Pathetic.... The Leningrad district.... in 1939.
Finland had 250K men, the soviets had 1million

Finland had 30 tanks, the Soviets had 6541

Finland had 130 airpla