Questions about education

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by motivez

Really? Why?

force of habit more than anything, but I also like to have a real impression of what I am spending

[7960]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

If you want to have some real fun go into some greasy sppon that has no calulator register. Lets say your order comes to $4.32 and you give them $5.07 and watch the confusion!

No, there won't be any confusion. Any greasy spoon waitress worth her weight in pork fat would stick it all in her pocket and not come back.

[Ardentfrost]

Even if you don't use cash, what if the computer messes up a price on the check. Or especially if you go somewhere that doesn't use a computer to print the checks, but the wait staff does it by hand. Wouldn't you like to know if there is an error on your check without having to whoop out a calculator?

[6SpeedTA95]

The simple math that most can't do is disturbing.

I was watching who wants to be a millionaire two weeks ago, grown woman on there, the question was the 4000 dollar question I believe...

"A woman with a salary of 50,000 dollars per year gets a 20% raise, what is her new salary?"

A) 40,000 dollars, B) 55,000 dollars, C) 60,000 dollars or D) 70,000 dollars...


The lady had to ask the audience. If I was her boss and saw something like that I'd so want to fire her. I dont care what you do for a living if you can't do basic math you need to get your ass back in school.

[7960]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

The simple math that most can't do is disturbing.

I was watching who wants to be a millionaire two weeks ago, grown woman on there, the question was the 4000 dollar question I believe...

"A woman with a salary of 50,000 dollars per year gets a 20% raise, what is her new salary?"

A) 40,000 dollars, B) 55,000 dollars, C) 60,000 dollars or D) 70,000 dollars...


The lady had to ask the audience. If I was her boss and saw something like that I'd so want to fire her. I dont care what you do for a living if you can't do basic math you need to get your ass back in school.

I can think of 8,451 jobs that don't require math as complex as that.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

I can think of 8,451 jobs that don't require math as complex as that.

yeah of course theres jobs that dont require it I dont see your point?

My point is if you dont understand basic math, what other basic necessities do you not understand but need to in order to carry out your daily life or job?

[kombayn]

Originally Posted by motivez

And how many of those people are in the same age demographic that JaJae was talking about?

Older people I know do, including family, my mom, aunt, uncle, and so forth.. no one my age though really.

I'm 22 going on 23 and I use cash. I use my debit card too, but cash works just as well.

[7960]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

yeah of course theres jobs that dont require it I dont see your point?

My point is if you dont understand basic math, what other basic necessities do you not understand but need to in order to carry out your daily life or job?

maybe some, maybe none.

There's a guy operating a bulldozer on my lawn right now. I've played cribbage with the guy and I 100% guarantee you he can't add higher than 31 without a calculator but for his job he's doing some fairly complex calculations in his head to maximize the use of fill without wasting, to get the water to drain properly, to meet plan grades, etc, etc.

So if you asked him to subtract 21.64 - 15.12 he'd laugh, or try to run you down with the bulldozer. Does not being able to do that mean he fails at life?

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

maybe some, maybe none.

There's a guy operating a bulldozer on my lawn right now. I've played cribbage with the guy and I 100% guarantee you he can't add higher than 31 without a calculator but for his job he's doing some fairly complex calculations in his head to maximize the use of fill without wasting, to get the water to drain properly, to meet plan grades, etc, etc.

So if you asked him to subtract 21.64 - 15.12 he'd laugh, or try to run you down with the bulldozer. Does not being able to do that mean he fails at life?

He's also far removed from school. The kids Jajae were talking to aren't. It sounds like they're either in school or recently out of school, maybe between school and college. Either way, the point is that over time if you don't keep your mind fresh on a subject (especially math), it fades. Lord knows I can't do calculus like I used to be able to about 7 years ago (simple derivatives and integrations is about it anymore, and I still have to think for a second whereas it used to be second nature to me).

The kids Jajae talked to reflects an education. The guy in your yard reflects him just not using that kind of math. Should kids be taught how to quickly and effectively make change in their heads? I would say yes.

[7960]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

He's also far removed from school. The kids Jajae were talking to aren't. It sounds like they're either in school or recently out of school, maybe between school and college. Either way, the point is that over time if you don't keep your mind fresh on a subject (especially math), it fades. Lord knows I can't do calculus like I used to be able to about 7 years ago (simple derivatives and integrations is about it anymore, and I still have to think for a second whereas it used to be second nature to me).

The kids Jajae talked to reflects an education. The guy in your yard reflects him just not using that kind of math. Should kids be taught how to quickly and effectively make change in their heads? I would say yes.

I agree they should be taught.

I also recognize that a week after the test on it, 80% of them won't be able to do it.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by 7960

I agree they should be taught.

I also recognize that a week after the test on it, 80% of them won't be able to do it.

making change math?!? Seriously? Because where *I* am from that shit was done early (like, 2nd or 3rd grade) and was a recurring theme for a few years. Because of when it happened in my development and how much they made us do it, it's something that always came really easy to me.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

yeah of course theres jobs that dont require it I dont see your point?

My point is if you dont understand basic math, what other basic necessities do you not understand but need to in order to carry out your daily life or job?

Being able to do basic math != Being able to do basic math in your head

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

Even if you don't use cash, what if the computer messes up a price on the check. Or especially if you go somewhere that doesn't use a computer to print the checks, but the wait staff does it by hand. Wouldn't you like to know if there is an error on your check without having to whoop out a calculator?

That's another reason I don't pay with cash, if there's something wrong that I learn later I can contest it with my bank.

I always do a cursory glance of things I pay for, especially when there's a discount that needs to be applied, but really.. you guys are bringing up such limited circumstances for why you think it's incredibly relevant to be able to do it in your head

If you can't do it in your head, you can always use pen + piece of paper to check.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by RMNIXON

Yes!


And not just because they are stupid. They are not being taught how do simple math anymore. My friend has a teenage son who is an honor student. He was taking High School Algebra and Science classes when still enrolled in Middle School.

The other day a simple math question like yours came up and he fumbled for an answer. When we pointed out that he was Mr. Super Smart his reply was, and I quote "But I don't have my calculator."

They think simple math should all be done by machine!

Isn't that the way of things though? I mean alot of things have become automated as times went on and there is no real need for people to do certain things manually. Why is this so much different?

[motivez]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Isn't that the way of things though? I mean alot of things have become automated as times went on and there is no real need for people to do certain things manually. Why is this so much different?

Old people clinging to the past

Ask most older people what the first thing they do when they move into a new house / apartment is, and it's "Get the phone line hooked up"

Ask most younger folks (~20ish), and I'd be willing to bet most don't even have a land line.. there's just no need for it today with cell phones

Some things just change generation to generation, there used to be a need to know how to use a slide rule if you wanted to do math, and while I'm sure some of the older professors today still have one, I doubt many of them spend much time with it any more, and I doubt you'll find many under a certain age that even know how to use one

It's like cursive, should we still be teaching our kids how to read / write with it? I don't think so. There's no REAL use for it any more. None, whatsoever.

It's a complete waste of class time when they could be learning how to type instead, and using extra time on something else more relevant in today's society

But you'll still see people who cling to the idea that cursive is useful and should be taught because they were

I'm not saying that's the case here with J, and I think there's something to be said for being ABLE to do it in your head, but it's usefulness is very limited to situations that don't come up all that often.. and as long as you can do it with a pen and paper, that's what really matters.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by motivez

Old people clinging to the past

Ask most older people what the first thing they do when they move into a new house / apartment is, and it's "Get the phone line hooked up"

Ask most younger folks (~20ish), and I'd be willing to bet most don't even have a land line.. there's just no need for it today with cell phones

Some things just change generation to generation, there used to be a need to know how to use a slide rule if you wanted to do math, and while I'm sure some of the older professors today still have one, I doubt many of them spend much time with it any more, and I doubt you'll find many under a certain age that even know how to use one

It's like cursive, should we still be teaching our kids how to read / write with it? I don't think so. There's no REAL use for it any more. None, whatsoever.

It's a complete waste of class time when they could be learning how to type instead, and using extra time on something else more relevant in today's society

But you'll still see people who cling to the idea that cursive is useful and should be taught because they were

I'm not saying that's the case here with J, and I think there's something to be said for being ABLE to do it in your head, but it's usefulness is very limited to situations that don't come up all that often.. and as long as you can do it with a pen and paper, that's what really matters.

speaking of cell phones, are there any that don't have a built in calculator? With the prevalance of technology, the need to be able to do basic math in your head is going away. As longs as you understand what you are doing I see no need to make a big deal out of doing math in your head.
As long as I know that to compute fuel mileage I should divide miles by gallons.. who cares. If someone asked me to do long division right now on a piece of paper I wouldn't be able to do it. no kidding. And it has never mattered and it never will matter.

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

.....you guys are bringing up such limited circumstances for why you think it's incredibly relevant to be able to do it in your head

If you can't do it in your head, you can always use pen + piece of paper to check.

Thank you.

My degree is in math and if you came up to me and asked "what's $56.45 - $28.59?" my answer would probably be "less than $30."

[7960]

Originally Posted by motivez

It's like cursive, should we still be teaching our kids how to read / write with it? I don't think so. There's no REAL use for it any more. None, whatsoever.

It's a complete waste of class time when they could be learning how to type instead, and using extra time on something else more relevant in today's society

I think it's still useful, but not for writing. It's useful for fine motor control. Being able to write neatly is just a bonus.

And as a side note, my 9 year old (who is learning cursive now) also types about 30 wpm without looking at the keyboard.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by JaJae

I was going to put this in the speakeasy, but I figured I wanted some serious answers so I'm going to put it here. I'm a district manager of a small theater chain. I was talking to some employees today and decided to see if they could make change in their heads. So asked them all one at a time to make change on something like $21.37 out of a $50 bill. Out of the ten or so employees I asked, only one person could do it. Employee age ranges from 16 to 22. Half of them were just completely wrong, some even admitted they couldn't do it and didn't want to embarrass themselves with a response and the others were off by about dollar answering something like 29.63 or 29.73.

Now I understand different school districts have different standards and different means of educating math. But to me this is completely unacceptable. These kids go to one of the best high schools in NJ. It is a regional blue ribbon school in one of the top five wealthiest counties in America... and their students can't perform what I consider basic arithmetic in their heads. Is this normal?

I found this very disturbing and was curious to see if this was common throughout much of America.

Counting change out of a cash registar would be easier for them if you told them to count out the change up to a dollar or to get at twenty two dollars and then count the bills from twenty two dollars up to the fifty dollars. We make things to easy for people. Cash registars never used to show the change needed only the cost of the purchase.