Well this is crap

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by motivez

You can't honestly be serious

of course not. but if he's going to stretch a child rape into something ridiculous, i'm going to stretch it into something ridiculous.

[goldenponderbob]

As I recall Truman opposed the Taft-Hartley labor bill, much as I oppose the death penalty, for numerous reasons, that add up to ""it's a bad system, but employed it enthusiastically when an appropriate moment made it seem useful.

No doubt this fellow's death-row status will enable him to take advantage of a free systematic appeals process for which his assigned attorneys will gladly bill the state (and indirectly the taxpayers) a ton of dough. Those citizens opted democratically for capital punishment, so like the fishermens' license, they are paying their way for what they want, and through the nose, if they saw the bills.

For all their efforts the guy might perish in his cell from some natural cause before the process pays out. He'll get his meals delivered and have some separation from the riff-raff he'd have had to rub shoulders with; some of whom I'm told, really dislike child molesters and would stand in line to save the state the trouble of injecting the fellow with a a "Kavorkian Cocktail".

Yet, like Truman, given the tools and an opportunity llike this, I could see taking the passionate and angry, albeit unwise, path.

goldenponderbob

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

You are beyond discussion in this point, as far as I'm concerned. Comparing a well disciplined child with a well raped child is just unbelievable.

I did not say they were equal, I am just saying there is equal argument that they were both permanently mentally damaged

What kind of adult likes that their fathers forced pain upon them with willful acts of violence when they were a defenseless little child? On a glance it's masochistic

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I can't find all the studies, but this is one peer-reviewed one, which was under a lot of pressure, was still upheld by the APA as scientifically valid and reviewed
MetaAna

Also other studies (which I can't find the links for right now) found somewhere around 15-30% (depending on gender/etc) thought POSITIVELY about their "child rape" when they were adults (in their 20s and 30s)

Also your logic doesn't pass because
1) it doesn't say she can't have kids
2) even if she couldn't, many drunk drivers cause the same damage and get nowhere near anything close to that punishment

After reading the document and the noted section of "positive" you can't discern from the document how badly the children were assaulted.

As the document states

Twenty one (35.6%) of the 59 studies contained a breakdown of the types of CSA that occurred along with their frequencies. Types listed varied from study to study, including acts such as an invitation to do something sexual, exhibitionism, fondling, masturbation, oral sex, attempted intercourse, and completed intercourse. Many authors referred to this increasing level of sexual intimacy as "severity" or "seriousness." Using the reported prevalence rates of the various types of CSA from these studies, we estimated the distribution of four basic types of CSA in the college population: exhibitionism, fondling, oral sex, and intercourse. For exhibitionism, we included reports of being shown or showing sex organs in a sexual context. Researchers assessed exhibitionism by asking participants if someone had shown, exhibited, or exposed to them his or her sex organs, or if they had shown, exhibited, or
exposed their sex organs to the other person at the other person's request. For fondling, we included reports of sexual touching and masturbation. Researchers assessed fondling usually by asking participants if they had experienced fondling or genital touching; occasionally they included nongenital touching as examples of fondling. For intercourse we included both attempted and completed instances. Estimates were based on weighting prevalence rates by sample size across samples. Some studies reported prevalence rates for two combined types (e.g., exhibitionism and fondling) rather than reporting their rates separately. In these cases, we divided the rates evenly between the two types. Because a number of studies categorized SA participants exclusively into the most "severe" type of CSA experienced, the prevalence of less severe types is likely to be underestimated.

In no way does it tie children that were violently raped to a "positive" experience. "Sexual assaults" vary from inquiring to do something to raping a child with a broomstick.

[Thorgrim]

The study found that two-thirds of sexually abused men and more than a quarter of sexually abused women reported neutral or positive reactions to past sexual experiences with adults.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I did not say they were equal, I am just saying there is equal argument that they were both permanently mentally damaged

What kind of adult likes that their fathers forced pain upon them with willful acts of violence when they were a defenseless little child? On a glance it's masochistic

I'd agree, but at the same time understanding the lesson from it is different from liking it. Pray tell, what lesson is to be learned from being violently raped as a child?

[Thorgrim]

child rape has different definitions, just like rape has a spectrum...the universal term is abuse for child situations

[motivez]

Not really, rape is used in specific circumstances.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Publius

I'd agree, but at the same time understanding the lesson from it is different liking it. Pray tell, what lesson is to be learned from being violently raped as a child?

None, but that is why we don't execute parents that use physical discipline

But lack of a lesson != reason for hanging them

[7960]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I'm not a death penalty guy, but I won't shed tears for this guy, nor will I speak up for him.

I would not speak up for him, but I would speak out against the death penalty.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

None, but that is why we don't execute parents that use physical discipline

But lack of a lesson != reason for hanging them

But it does mean there is a significant difference between spanking your child and raping your child. Thus your comparison of the two and the "psychological result" in adulthood is an improper comparison.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

child rape has different definitions, just like rape has a spectrum...the universal term is abuse for child situations

Then this study has nothing to do with the point you attempt to make. It deals with all abuse, not this kind of rape.

A child getting prompted to provide fellatio to someone at a young age may have taught them to watch out for strangers. This is a positive experience.

You can't classify someone being violently raped as a positive experience no matter how you try to cut it.

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

None, but that is why we don't execute parents that use physical discipline

But lack of a lesson != reason for hanging them

Spanking isn't on par with sexual assault in terms of severity of the offense.. or the potential for psychological or physical damage..

If you want to go further than spanking, then it's physical abuse and is obviously no longer under the banner of physical discipline.

[Thorgrim]

I'm curious, on a nightly news program they had a black 25 year old...i think she is a succesful a singer, she sang for her church as a little girl, and on day she was feeling sick and was slightly off-key

her father told her to strip to her underwear because he said "im gonna whip you all over", and she was vigorously beaten with a whip and couldn't get up, let alone leave the house, for weeks

In the interview, she thanked her father (now dead) and thought he did the most terrific thing, because she never sang off-key again no matter how terrible she felt because of the discipline that was instilled in her in that vicious beating

now, is it just me, or does that girl sound a little off?

Same here with (I would guess) some posters who were hit as a child

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by 7960

I would not speak up for him, but I would speak out against the death penalty.

I do the same thing all the time, and, in a way, did so with my original post.

[Ardentfrost]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm curious, on a nightly news program they had a black 25 year old...i think she is a succesful a singer, she sang for her church as a little girl, and on day she was feeling sick and was slightly off-key

her father told her to strip to her underwear because he said "im gonna whip you all over", and she was vigorously beaten with a whip and couldn't get up, let alone leave the house, for weeks

In the interview, she thanked her father (now dead) and thought he did the most terrific thing, because she never sang off-key again no matter how terrible she felt because of the discipline that was instilled in her in that vicious beating

now, is it just me, or does that girl sound a little off?

Same here with (I would guess) some posters who were hit as a child

That's plain fucked up.

[motivez]

That's still not physical discipline, that's child abuse and the father deserves to be punished for doing so

People always try to see the silver lining in something, grow stronger from negative experiences, etc.. but that certainly doesn't negate the fact that the perpetrators deserve to be punished for their actions.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm curious, on a nightly news program they had a black 25 year old...i think she is a succesful a singer, she sang for her church as a little girl, and on day she was feeling sick and was slightly off-key

her father told her to strip to her underwear because he said "im gonna whip you all over", and she was vigorously beaten with a whip and couldn't get up, let alone leave the house, for weeks

In the interview, she thanked her father (now dead) and thought he did the most terrific thing, because she never sang off-key again no matter how terrible she felt because of the discipline that was instilled in her in that vicious beating

now, is it just me, or does that girl sound a little off?

Same here with (I would guess) some posters who were hit as a child

Yes, this one piece of anecdotal evidence outweighs all arguments to the contrary despite there being plenty of anecdotal cases of extreme physical abuse as a child resulting in deep and lifelong psychological trauma which rendered them unable to function in normal society.

[Rouger2]

If any of us were a fly on the wall while this was rape was going on we would vote to have this guy killed in a wood chipper. I know I would. This was a hell of a crime and he deserves to die.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Many cultures would say their father ever raising a hand to them leads to them being permanently screwed up, and anyone who says "im glad my dad beat me!" is fucked up

you are just giving subjective opinion

I don't see subjective opinion. I pointed out a flaw in logic.

Adults reporting their rape as children as a positive experience does not necessarily mean it was a positive experience - it only shows the reporter's opinion. The reporter doesn't have the luxury of knowing the alternative history that could have been made without the rape in order to compare the two.

This is garbage science promoted by idiots. And yes, I am saying that I'm smarter than the peer-reviewing "scientists."