Well this is crap

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I'm curious, on a nightly news program they had a black 25 year old...i think she is a succesful a singer, she sang for her church as a little girl, and on day she was feeling sick and was slightly off-key

her father told her to strip to her underwear because he said "im gonna whip you all over", and she was vigorously beaten with a whip and couldn't get up, let alone leave the house, for weeks

In the interview, she thanked her father (now dead) and thought he did the most terrific thing, because she never sang off-key again no matter how terrible she felt because of the discipline that was instilled in her in that vicious beating

now, is it just me, or does that girl sound a little off?

Same here with (I would guess) some posters who were hit as a child

So someone who is psychologically off sees it as a positive experience, it must be a positive experience?

[motivez]

Back to the original topic, I don't like the idea of the death penalty because it can never be applied fairly and evenly across economic and ethnic lines in any society.. especially one like ours where the haves wind up with better outcomes in their trials than the have nots.

That doesn't mean some people don't deserve to die for their crimes, but I don't think it's a good idea to have a system of punishment where a mistake can be made that can't ever be attempted to be rectified, or where something like that is applied so unequally.

[hsmith]

So all those polygamist children in TX see getting raped at 13 when they are sold off as "wives" see it as positive because they think it is due to the way they are brought up have valid views that their experience was positive?

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Then this study has nothing to do with the point you attempt to make. It deals with all abuse, not this kind of rape.

A child getting prompted to provide fellatio to someone at a young age may have taught them to watch out for strangers. This is a positive experience.

You can't classify someone being violently raped as a positive experience no matter how you try to cut it.

thats not what the study says...you're making specific hypotheticals like they were arranged as such in the study

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

So someone who is psychologically off sees it as a positive experience, it must be a positive experience?

according to people on here, if they were physically hit as a child, and they think it's positive, then it is

100% fact to them...

Me, I don't have a PhD or MD/DO...

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

thats not what the study says...you're making specific hypotheticals like they were arranged as such in the study

Please point out in the study where it shows children who were raped have a positive outlook on the experience in shaping their lives.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Ardentfrost

That's plain fucked up.

I'd be careful, don't want to upset people who are proud of being "disciplined" as a child

and motivez, we are talking about more than a simple light spanking, as many of my friends dealt with (thankfully not me!) but I was a trooper as a kid

[Ezra Smack]

They should go to work on this guy with a blow torch and a pair or pliers. That will disuade others from child rape. And who knows Thorgrim, maybe this freak will find it a positive experience that will make him a better person.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by hsmith

Please point out in the study where it shows children who were raped have a positive outlook on the experience in shaping their lives.

thats now how studies have been set up, nor do I imagine they will be...

"rape" is a legal term of art, as it applies to 17 year olds who get a 25 year old drunk in some states, as well as someone tortured and forced upon while they are crying for weeks

fitting legal terms into scientific studies is weird and should not be done

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

thats now how studies have been set up, nor do I imagine they will be...

"rape" is a legal term of art, as it applies to 17 year olds who get a 25 year old drunk in some states, as well as someone tortured and forced upon while they are crying for weeks

fitting legal terms into scientific studies is weird and should not be done

I really don't think you have a clue what you are talking about.

[northhunter]

Anyone who has sex with a child, by force or not that isn't caught and killed by one of that child's parents goes directly to jail for the rest of their life no possibility of parole ever! And I'm not talking about the 17 year old boy who's girlfriend is a month shy of 17, I'm talking about those sick bastards like this thread was started about. If you want to feel sorry for someone feel sorry for the children not the criminals after they get caught and promise to never, ever do it again.

[motivez]

I hope some of you realize infractions are on the way, if not, you should take a glance at the rules and start following them

In addition to more infractions, thread bans will be forthcoming to anyone who wants to continue

edit:

As I said to someone over PM:

Essentially, the core of our rules revolve around the idea that posts should be about the topic being discussed and the opinions expressed, rather than the posters making the posts and expressing the opinions.

If someone defends organization X, or opinion Y, then obviously attacking the merits of the organization and going after the opinion you disagree with is an acceptable response, attacking the poster for their opinion because you despise the organization or really dislike their opinion is not.

This is in there too:

Understand that other people posting on this forum will have vastly different experiences, opinions, and views on topics than you will. Be respectful of that when replying to a thread.

If you find that responding to someone frequently makes you want to stab them in the eye, and as a result you break the rules, please use the ignore list instead of turning what could be an interesting discussion into a shitfest.

[thewise1]

I don't think anyone is threatening you or insulting your wife, Thorgrim. I know that I wouldn't even consider doing such a thing; I hope that you know me well enough - even if we often - almost always - disagree - to know that I

a) wouldn't do that based on this sort of conversation
b) would man up and say it to your face instead of being a sniveling informer
c) would really, really, hesitate to interject government into your family life like that without actual evidence of wrongdoing

That said, it really does sound like you're looking for the silver lining in these cases, which may come off as really callous and disturbing to some of us who have kids and are protective of them - as you will be one day, most likely. You really did appear to compare discipline and rape earlier, and that really disturbed me too. Sometimes it may be wise to step back and consider if you're defending what you think you're defending still, and adjust your position if you've been led away from where you intended to go via fallacy or flawed argument.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by motivez

I hope some of you realize infractions are on the way, if not, you should take a glance at the rules and start following them

In addition to more infractions, thread bans will be forthcoming to anyone who wants to continue

Sorry if I continued something that I shouldn't have just now

[Thorgrim]

wise:

I specifically told Scrum, pages ago, we could work it out where parents would be found not guilty on any charges...when they kill someone who raped their child

I shouldn't even have to say that I, like Scrum, would do the same thing

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

wise:

I specifically told Scrum, pages ago, we could work it out where parents would be found not guilty on any charges...when they kill someone who raped their child

I shouldn't even have to say that I, like Scrum, would do the same thing

And rightfully so, my friend. I am not suggesting you would do anything wrong, merely pointing out how some of your comments were perceived by others.

I do not intend to imply anything else. Also, although the life you've chosen for yourself with your future wife is not one that appeals to me personally, I do wish you the absolute best with it regardless.

[A_C_E]

First off, I'm going to ignore Thorgrim and whatever train of thought spun this thread off-topic, because I don't think it's really the point.

But, as I categorically oppose the death penalty, obviously I'm against. Also, if I have to live with having the death penalty, no crime other than killing deserves killing in return. What kind of justice exists when the government kills someone who doesn't kill someone else? That's murder in my eyes.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Ezra Smack

The problem with housing this monster in a cell for the rest of his life is that the tax payers will have to foot the bill. I personally like the idea of death by slow torture, starting with genital mutilation for crimes this extreme. But that will never fly in a "civilized society" perhape he could receive community service? How about supervised release?

It has been proven dozens and dozens of times that it costs, on average, more money to execute someone than it does to put them behind bars for life. Almost every death sentence deals with multiple appeals, and legal fees are very pricey these days. Especially since some public defenders carry out the appeals, so the government is actually paying both sides of a legal battle it created

A simple google search returns tons of evidence for the conclusion I drew above:

death penalty taxpayers - Google Search

[A_C_E]

Btw, how is everyone on here so well-versed in Thorgrim's personal life? He once told me he was never comfortable talking about it on the internet

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by thewise1

And rightfully so, my friend. I am not suggesting you would do anything wrong, merely pointing out how some of your comments were perceived by others.

I do not intend to imply anything else. Also, although the life you've chosen for yourself with your future wife is not one that appeals to me personally, I do wish you the absolute best with it regardless.

It's simply a likely path, lets say we're guessing because no one will believe any hard numbers and i dont expect them to either its the internet

if I got a job offer in NYC/DC for 80-120k a year, i'd be working 80 hours a week, and id never see her because she'd be doing her residency in philly in which she is stuck due to connections with doctors/hospitals in this area...which we both agreed is simply unacceptable to barely see each other for years

now, she could get some sort of transfer, but it would cripple her career, which ofcourse is an option, but

if I am not tied down to NYC/DC...or even philly...we could always pivot off her job offering...one of her friends that is in the same medical field she is wild about just got a job in Seattle for 300k a year plus a payment plan for her near 350k in student loan debt...now, if I spent years working my way up to 150k-200k in DC/NYC, how can she ask me to sacrifice not only all my graduate work, but 80 hour work shifts for years on end to get where I wanted to be, just so she can go from 160k to 300k?

However, if I am making 60k in Philly doing some local politics, with a marble ceiling on my salary, and working 40 hours right off the bat, I can split to anywhere she gets an offer in a second, and start a family once we settle down, or we always figured kids don't get solid lifetime memories until they are 4 so we have until then to...to find a region/city with the best offer

with the rapidily expanding medical field and shortage of doctors, we could end up moving several times

Would I love to be working as a CIA analyst, chief of staff to a Senator or influential lobbyist? Of course, it's always been my dream, but time to face reality, the former, especially after 2002, doesn't have the same appeal, and the latter is a lot of luck or insane amount of work I don't think I'd enjoy the path...

On the other hand, her career future requires no luck, she loves every aspect of it, and simply regardless of what I do she'll be making more money

So, do I sacrifice a career she loves, makes more money than I'll ever do, and subject myself down a path that I know at one point I'll have to end prematurely (all roads lead to DC, and she has no medical plans to ever go there)

Or do I sacrifice my career, and pivot off her offers with her, make more money, get to make sure my kids are brought up without ever dealing with some 3rd party stranger care?

It's the overwhelmingly logical thing to do, and actually to be stubborn about male pride would only hurt her...and for what?