Yale senior 'induced abortions on herself' for art project

[7960]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

they are not mutually exclusive. there is a difference between the two no matter how you try to spin it.

you are right but you are wasting your time.

my morals are not tied in any way to a religion......in fact I don't follow a religion, but that doesn't mean I don't have morals.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I think its disturbing because she's creating and destroying life for the sole purpose of "she can" or "its my right". Which is kinda

Then there's also the simple blood and guts factor that many may find gross

I guess I dont know what you're really asking me to elaborate on???

Well that becomes an issue of what is a life and what isn't a life, which is all religion

The blood and guts factor, well, let me tell you E&D when it is neccessary is legal (and often neccesary) and it is quite a disgusting abortion procedure to describe...gives me the shivers just thinking about it...so for that part I guess there is nothing really else to discuss except to say there are A LOT of very disgusting medical procedures and thank god we have doctors

so the only left to discuss is whether it is truely a life or not, but you don't seem inclined to entertain the idea of some religions and religious people that a fetus has no value

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by 7960

an overwhelming majority is going to agree it's sick.

the real conversation starts when someone also says it should be limited.....that's where the lines will be drawn roughly around the same place as the "pro-life / pro-choice" lines.

the pro-life people are going to attack with "you mean you support what she did?" but that's just an inflammatory way of saying "should abortion be legal." It's hard to disassociate how disgusting what she did is from whether abortion should be legal, but that's what the argument comes down to

Yeah I agree completely.

[Thorgrim]

so, i read that, as one definition of religion, from you posted...quote:

"personal set of attitudes" well I think everyone has those

a quick wiki search came back with morality: proper system of values and principles of moral conduct promotes good customs (virtues), but also condemns bad customs (vices)

again, something I think everyone has...so they both have religion and moral, but are they similiar

Are a set of personal beliefs (religion) and a set of values (morality) the same or near same thing?

As I read it, yes...in fact I believe if you asked many people "what is religion" they would say "a set of values" and many people asked on morality would say "personal beliefs" which is infact getting it backwards for what we just found online

because, they are so intertwined in the english language that for all purposes, except for a debate on semantics, they are part of the same thing

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

but you don't seem inclined to entertain the idea of some religions and religious people that a fetus has no value

Do what? Are you saying some religious people believe a fetus has no value? if so yeah I would agree with that, I know people who claim to be christians that believe abortion right up until birth is ok, then I know others who claim to be christians that are 100% against abortion in every case.

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

so, i read that, as one definition of religion, from you posted...quote:

"personal set of attitudes" well I think everyone has those

a quick wiki search came back with morality: proper system of values and principles of moral conduct promotes good customs (virtues), but also condemns bad customs (vices)

again, something I think everyone has...so they both have religion and moral, but are they similiar

Are a set of personal beliefs (religion) and a set of values (morality) the same or near same thing?

As I read it, yes...in fact I believe if you asked many people "what is religion" they would say "a set of values" and many people asked on morality would say "personal beliefs" which is infact getting it backwards for what we just found online

because, they are so intertwined in the english language that for all purposes, except for a debate on semantics, they are part of the same thing

religion is doctrine, belief. that belief might hold certain values, or morals, but just because someone has morals, does not mean they're religious.

they are NOT mutually exclusive.

that's like saying, hey, all christians are baptists. yes, baptists are christians, but obviously not all christians are baptists.

recognize the difference and eliminate the obtuseness.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

Do what? Are you saying some religious people believe a fetus has no value? if so yeah I would agree with that, I know people who claim to be christians that believe abortion right up until birth is ok, then I know others who claim to be christians that are 100% against abortion in every case.

Yes some religious people believe a fetus has no value...you would agree or disagree with that? I'm confused

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

religion is doctrine, belief. that belief might hold certain values, or morals, but just because someone has morals, does not mean they're religious.

they are NOT mutually exclusive.

that's like saying, hey, all christians are baptists. yes, baptists are christians, but obviously not all christians are baptists.

recognize the difference and eliminate the obtuseness.

Religion is not defined as "doctine"...it has multiple definitions, and doctrine is not contained in everyone

everyone has morals, it's just a matter of what they value

despite the terrible akwardness of the word, everyone has "religion/spirituality" because everyone has attitudes...mostly on...yes what they value

[Scrum]

Ewwww.

I don't know why anyone would want to do that to themselves or see it someone else do it.



That said, it shouldn't be illegal.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Religion is not defined as "doctine"...it has multiple definitions, and doctrine is not contained in everyone

everyone has morals, it's just a matter of what they value

despite the terrible akwardness of the word, everyone has "religion/spirituality" because everyone has attitudes...mostly on...yes what they value

I value individual freedoms. There is zero religion/spirituality involved.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Scrum

I value individual freedoms. There is zero religion/spirituality involved.

This is just semantics, you don't like the word, and what it connotates, so you wish to disassociate yourself from it

A great many people would consider your value of individual freedoms as something spiritual, and even religious

think about it, you are putting value in something as special...there is a word for that: Sacred

What do we call people who hold things sacred in their lives...usually...religious

*Sidenote: I think you are the first person to say it should not be illegal? You have made the most controversial post of this thread, even I have not gone that far

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

This is just semantics, you don't like the word, and what it connotates, so you wish to disassociate yourself from it

A great many people would consider your value of individual freedoms as something spiritual, and even religious

think about it, you are putting value in something as special...there is a word for that: Sacred

What do we call people who hold things sacred in their lives...usually...religious

*Sidenote: I think you are the first person to say it should not be illegal? You have made the most controversial post of this thread, even I have not gone that far

you're using semantics as well. how the hell do you not recognize that? captain obtuse smartypants. come on!

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

give me a bad reputation comment saying i'm rude because i tell you to stop arguing for the sake of arguing?

you might at well tell me i'm rude for saying the grass is green.

jesus christ! get over yourself and stop trolling!

Don't waste your breath. On this farm all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others.


Advocating baby rape and defending someone who shows off her abortions are civil and innocuous comments not meant to bait anybody. Disagreeing with baby rape and intentional abortions is trolling.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

you're using semantics as well. how the hell do you not recognize that? captain obtuse smartypants. come on!

I said "this is just semantics" not "you're using semantics and im using a higher truth that is all knowing!!!!"

[Thorgrim]

Also, Linzy, I would ask you don't call people "obtuse" it is quite rude and insulting...even when we had holocaust deniers in here, I did not call them "obtuse" or otherwise insult them

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

religion is morality...

Can you ever say anyone who is following their religion, whether it's orthodox judaism or theravada buddhism or whatever...is immoral?

It used to me "immoral" to give a loan with interest, even a 10-year, huge loan, with 1% interest...many here would consider that a great gift...but it used to be an immoral act

Each religion and each person has there own morality and I don't think anyone has said that this was unlawful, just crazy as hell. She must have one hell of a need for attention. Yes, a shrink is definately called for here.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

Each religion and each person has there own morality and I don't think anyone has said that this was unlawful, just crazy as hell. She must have one hell of a need for attention. Yes, a shrink is definately called for here.

Art is very subjective and as I am no art critic and I don't know what the final art will look like, I'm unsure how to judge the value of the art as of now

I remember
Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My initial reaction that this was just some attention whore trying to anger catholics

But years later after review and reading many artists remarks, I've come around to see it can actually be seen in a pro-christian light and also have much more value than many other artistic pieces

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Art is very subjective and as I am no art critic and I don't know what the final art will look like, I'm unsure how to judge the value of the art as of now

I remember
Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..years later after review and reading many artists remarks, I've come around to see it can actually be seen in a pro-christian light and also have much more value than many other artistic pieces

It takes a highly enlightened person with a deep artistic fiber in their soul to understand the genius and talent of a national treasure like Mappelthorpe. Too bad more folks aren't smart and wise enough to 'get it'.



Mappelthorps effect in the art world

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

This is just semantics, you don't like the word, and what it connotates, so you wish to disassociate yourself from it

A great many people would consider your value of individual freedoms as something spiritual, and even religious

think about it, you are putting value in something as special...there is a word for that: Sacred

What do we call people who hold things sacred in their lives...usually...religious

I don't hold them as sacred though, I only value them.

I treat others as I would want them to treat me. There is no "4th dimension/spirit/metaphysics/religion" involved in that.
It's all about the actions of people and their impact on this world and society.

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

*Sidenote: I think you are the first person to say it should not be illegal? You have made the most controversial post of this thread, even I have not gone that far

Really? I thought I saw others posting the same thing. I'll have to re-read.