Yale senior 'induced abortions on herself' for art project

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Linzyhop

i am trying to get you to accept the FACT that the two words are not mutually exclusive. you keep saying grass is green or weeds are grass but not accepting the obvious.




hmm, let's see.....
yup. sounds about right.

a wise man once said stupid is as stupid does. i'm just reiterating a similar metaphor.

I repeat, people of extreme beliefs, even those who said the holocaust did not occur, I did not call them stupid...there is no reason to call people stupid on this board

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Scrum

I don't hold them as sacred though, I only value them.

I treat others as I would want them to treat me. There is no "4th dimension/spirit/metaphysics/religion" involved in that.
It's all about the actions of people and their impact on this world and society.


Really? I thought I saw others posting the same thing. I'll have to re-read.

I don't think 4th dimenstion is required, that's just a stereotype of religion/spirituality that is true MOST of the time, but not in every case

And also, 4th dimension can be seen to apply to value, a computer can not understand what it means to "value someone" or "something"

[Linzyhop]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

I repeat, people of extreme beliefs, even those who said the holocaust did not occur, I did not call them stupid...there is no reason to call people stupid on this board

i never called you stupid.

[Rouger2]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

Art is very subjective and as I am no art critic and I don't know what the final art will look like, I'm unsure how to judge the value of the art as of now

I remember
Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My initial reaction that this was just some attention whore trying to anger catholics

But years later after review and reading many artists remarks, I've come around to see it can actually be seen in a pro-christian light and also have much more value than many other artistic pieces

That was not art it was a political statement.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

That was not art it was a political statement.

It won an award for visual arts...?

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Rouger2

That was not art it was a political statement.

Most of Mappelthorpes 'work' was nothing but hardcore homosexual pornography.

The politics of converting pornography to art has been a sickening spectacle to watch for me, a visual artist.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

It won an award for visual arts...?

Ah... won an award huh?

Must be high art then <Sarcasm>



An art phd taught her class that realism is a primitive art - obsolete now that cameras have been invented. She couldn't sketch to save her life and I overheard one of her grad student workers tell a student, 'You can't teach someone to draw.'

The SAM has a display of a garishly painted toilet (readymade) with a handcrafted piece of shit in the bowl. This display greets all third floor visitors (modern art section). A perfect illustration of what modern art is.

Visual art awards mean nothing.

[thewise1]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Ah... won an award huh?

Must be high art then <Sarcasm>



An art phd taught her class that realism is a primitive art - obsolete now that cameras have been invented. She couldn't sketch to save her life and I overheard one of her grad student workers tell a student, 'You can't teach someone to draw.'

The SAM has a display of a garishly painted toilet (readymade) with a handcrafted piece of shit in the bowl. This display greets all third floor visitors (modern art section). A perfect illustration of what modern art is.

Visual art awards mean nothing.

SAM = Seattle Art Museum? I wouldn't be surprised at all

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by thewise1

SAM = Seattle Art Museum? I wouldn't be surprised at all

Yep... and if you hurry, you can still see the junked out white Ford Tauruses hanging from the ceiling with blinking lights attached. A jaw dropping splendor I assure you. Also be sure to catch the car filled with spent fireworks sitting in front of a screen displaying the fireworks going off. Astounding creativity!

Obtaining an art degree signifies that one can find an unusual item in a second hand store and then describe the 'inspiration' of the item with a meaningless and hackneyed string of words composed by cruising for random obscure words in a dictionary. A graduate art degree is acquired by those who can do the same while extolling the joy and wonder of same-sex relations.

[hsmith]

[RockPusher]

Art?



This is not off-track. What is art?


Can an abortion be art?




(NOTE _ THIS POST WAS ALTERED TO REMOVE IMAGES OF THE ARTWORK OF WELL KNOWN AND HIGHLY RESPECTED MODERN ARTISTS - ONE OF WHO WAS COMPLEMENTED BY ANOTHER POSTER IN THIS THREAD

THE IMAGES WERE LINKED FROM THE GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM OF ART AND THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA ART DEPT.

HOW CAN HIGH ART BE NSFW? )

pics were NUDE MALE CHILD AND FIST UP ANUS

[thewise1]

man, not cool, I'm at work and that was pretty much the last thing I expected to see

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by thewise1

man, not cool, I'm at work and that was pretty much the last thing I expected to see

Sorry... I guess you are not 'artistically' minded like Robert Mappelthorpe - The Piss Christ guy. It is good enough for the Guggenheim museum, but not good enough for you.

Can you live with yourself for not being an 'artist'.


(SARCASM -

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by thewise1

man, not cool, I'm at work and that was pretty much the last thing I expected to see

Who is art for?

Does art need to be universally understood to be art, or is art something that cannot be understood by most people?

Was Michelangelo's David understood? Was its 'meaning' a lustful thrill at the sight of a huge guy and his dork? Was it meant as a celebration of the human form?

Has any parent felt the need to shield their child's eyes from Michelangelo's pieta?

Can you compare the controversial Goya with this womans bloody discharge?





Art can be shocking and controversial, but you don't need a PHD to decide whether PissChrist Boys kiddie porn and fisting photos cross the line. In fact, it seems that the only people who cant decide ARE the PhDs!!!

This woman is even less talented with than Mappelthorpe, who was a good photographer. Talk about shameless to pass such a vile 'ready made' as art.




Warhol was right about life imitating art. Look what has become of our modern world...

[thewise1]

all I can think of when I see that guy eating the the person is OM NOM NOM NOM

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by thewise1

all I can think of when I see that guy eating the the person is OM NOM NOM NOM

You are cracking me up man.... I will never see it the same again.

Goya is considered by some to be the father of modern art. That is Saturn eating his son.

Even though this painting is lowbrow 'shock art', like most all modern art, it has the elements of an artistic work.

How can a picture of an abortion be considered an artistic work? The picture by itself cannot convey anything... it is just a bloody mess. It must be accompanied with a literal expression explaining what it is in order for it to have any meaning at all.


Goya's Saturn is a "literal" art work in the OLD DEFINITION of the artistic term, 'literal'. Literal art was art depicting something from literature.

Modern 'literal' art is something like the Husband Machine - a Rube Goldburg device looking thing that is supposed to convey a 'literal' meaning. This meaning cannot be 'read' without the artist directing you through explaning the symbolism or visual language. Thus literal artwork is now art devoid of literary meaning.

Gotta love newspeak.

Goya lowered the bar. His antiwar piece cannot compare with the Helenistic piece, The Dying Gaul..... And the Helenistic piece does not need to rely on gore to give its horrible and respectful message:

[hsmith]

Stolen from Digg

For the love of Maude, people, THINK!

"Shvarts declined to specify the number of sperm donors she used, as well as the number of times she inseminated herself...."
"...The abortifacient drugs she took were legal and herbal..."
"...she did not feel the need to consult a doctor..."
"...These videos, captured on a VHS camcorder, will show her experiencing miscarriages in her bathrooom tub...."
"...lined between layers of the sheeting will be the blood from Schvarts’ self-induced miscarriages mixed with Vaseline in order to prevent the blood from drying and to extend the blood throughout the plastic sheeting..."

Here we have a display of (alleged) blood wrapped in plastic away from all inspection, home-made videotapes shot in a private bathroom with no one else present, no medical documentation, no perscriptions for drugs, no documented pregnancy tests, just the work of an ART STUDENT who "wants to make a statement".

You're being had. It's a hoax. It's an art instillation meant to stir up publicity and controversy, and there is ZERO evidence that ANY of it is real.

I know everyone's eager to believe things that support their own prejudices, but come on folks, THINK!

Sort of has a point

[Thorgrim]

it could very well be a hoax, but I don't see why medical documentation, drug Rxs would be neccesary...and "documented pregnancy tests"?

to me it would be a lot easier to "hoax" if there was no video tape, just use some blood like substance and make outrageous claims

[A_C_E]

Well this is interesting:

Yale Daily News - University calls art project a fiction; Shvarts '08 disputes Yale's claim

According to a statement released by the University today, Aliza Shvarts ’08 was never impregnated. She never miscarried. The sweeping outrage on blogs across the country was apparently for naught.

The supposed senior art project of the Davenport College senior was a “creative fiction,” a Yale official said Thursday afternoon as students on campus and bloggers across the country expressed colossal outrage over what Shvarts described as a documentation of a nine-month process during which she claimed to have artificially inseminated herself “as often as possible” while periodically taking “abortifacient drugs” to induce miscarriages.

“The entire project is an art piece, a creative fiction designed to draw attention to the ambiguity surrounding form and function of a woman’s body,” Yale spokeswoman Helaine Klasky said in a written statement e-mailed to the News this afternoon.
But Shvarts stood by her project, calling the University’s statement “ultimately inaccurate.”

“She is an artist and has the right to express herself through performance art,” Klasky said. “Had these acts been real, they would have violated basic ethical standards and raised serious mental and physical health concerns.”

But Shvarts reiterated Thursday that she repeatedly use a needleless syringe to insert semen into herself. At the end of her menstrual cycle, she took abortifacient herbs to induce bleeding, she said. She said she does not know whether or not she was ever pregnant.

You guys didn't actually fall for this, did you?

Whenever anything involving an Ivy League school pops up, just check IvyGate: The Ivy League blog. News, gossip, sex, sports and more at Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard, Penn, Princeton and Yale. You will know the truth sooner rather than later.

[Thorgrim]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Well this is interesting:

Yale Daily News - University calls art project a fiction; Shvarts '08 disputes Yale's claim

You guys didn't actually fall for this, did you?