Libertarians be upset! Pizza Hut Delivery Driver fired for defending himself!

[kombayn]

Pizza Delivery Driver Fired After Shooting - Des Moines News Story - KCCI Des Moines

DES MOINES, Iowa -- A pizza delivery driver, who police said defended himself by shooting a robber who attacked him, was fired from his job on Friday.


James Spiers, 38, confirmed to KCCI that he is no longer employed by Pizza Hut. Spiers said he was given two months severance pay and was offered help finding a new job by the company.
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Spiers told KCCI in an interview two weeks ago that he was not angry with his employer about the possibility of being let go and said he hadn't decided whether to return to the job even if he wasn't fired.


According to court documents, Melanie Stout, 18, called in a pizza order to an apartment building at 2050 SE King Ave. Police said her fiancee, Kenneth Jimmerson, 19, was waiting in the lobby with a gun when Spiers arrived at 10:39 p.m. on March 28.



Police said Jimmerson tried to rob Spiers at gunpoint. During a struggle, Spiers pulled out his own gun and opened fire. Spiers shot Jimmerson several times, in what police said was a justified shooting. Jimmerson survived was sent to the hospital and a couple days later moved to the Polk County Jail.


Though Spiers had a permit to carry his gun, Pizza Hut suspended its long-time delivery driver.


A corporate spokesman told KCCI two weeks ago that Spiers violated company policy by carrying a gun. Pizza Hut suspended him, while the company gathered more information before deciding the fate of his job.

Now I was reading this on another forum, and while Pizza Hut has the right to implement there own policies. They are so wrong. This man could've lost his life and if he lost the money, would the company make him re-pay them?


I give credit to Pizza Hut at least giving him 2 months severance package and will help him find a new job, so they can save face with Progressives and Liberals that support the company in the stock market.

What do others think? I find it stupid, that an employee who is making peanuts with this job can't defend himself from some crook like that kid and I give him a standing ovation. I hope that kid and his stupid girlfriend realize crime doesn't pay.

I've already contacted Pizza hut through e-mail to let them know I will no longer support their business since Human Resources doesn't support its employees. Also, it makes me want to purchase another fire-arm for my home and keep it under my bed like a poster on the board told me before.


To voice your outrage over Pizza Hut’s disciplinary decision, please contact the Corporate Offices by phone at (800) 948-8488, or by e-mail at this webpage:http://www.pizzahut.com/contactus/Co...m.aspx?l1=2024.
This corporate policy is outrageous.

SOURCE:
http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=3777

[WickedLou9]

If Pizza Hut doesn't want it's delivery drivers carrying guns to deliver it's pizza that's thier right... and your right as a potential employee to choose not to work there if you don't like thier HR policies. Libertarians should not care.

[Thorgrim]

Pizza hut has rules and if you don't follow them, any company should fire you, or you should make your own company...letting companies set their own policies is part of a free market

It's pretty clear cut policy: Our customers don't want people with guns coming to their doors, or gated communities, etc...therefor no driver, no matter what, shall not take a gun while delivering

They probably didn't want him anyway because the guy sound borderline retarded...did he think pizza hut was going to charge him for the pizzas? what did he gave probably like twenty bucks in his wallet...a guy has a gun locked on you and so you respond by pulling out your gun, and by sheer luck, escaping with your life

intelligence = tossing the pizza box down, and putting your wallet on it, and then walking away

he's a 38 year old pizza guy, shooting someone was probably the highlight of his life...i bet he wouldn't really have minded if the other guy would have killed him

And Iowa policeman call it a justified shooting? what else did you expect, the robeer was a scumbag and they want him in prison incase whatever shape he recovers, they'd have everything to gain by saying it's justified

however im skeptical on the "struggle with 2 guns...and then aggressor was shot by 'victim' several times"

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by Thorgrim

he's a 38 year old pizza guy, shooting someone was probably the highlight of his life...i bet he wouldn't really have minded if the other guy would have killed him

Are you suggesting he enjoyed killing this man? What evidence do you have for this?

[7960]

Originally Posted by kombayn

Now I was reading this on another forum, and while Pizza Hut has the right to implement there own policies. They are so wrong. This man could've lost his life

If he didn't like their policy then he didn't have to work there. Ignoring the policy and carrying his own gun got him fired..........NOT "defending himself."

and if he lost the money, would the company make him re-pay them?

No.

[motivez]

I understand why a pizza delivery person would want to be armed, especially if they're going into bad neighborhoods at night.. getting out of the car and going up to strangers doors at all hours of the night is certainly not the safest job out there

So, while I don't really think it's a good policy, I don't see why libertarians would be upset, they usually believe business can put in place whatever rules and regulations for its employees that it wants to, worker be damned.

[JaJae]

Originally Posted by motivez

I understand why a pizza delivery person would want to be armed, especially if they're going into bad neighborhoods at night.. getting out of the car and going up to strangers doors at all hours of the night is certainly not the safest job out there

So, while I don't really think it's a good policy, I don't see why libertarians would be upset, they usually believe business can put in place whatever rules and regulations for its employees that it wants to, worker be damned.

I agree with this. I thought the "right to work" mentality was pretty much supported by libertarians. Both parties are free to end their business relationship at any time for any reason.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by JaJae

Are you suggesting he enjoyed killing this man? What evidence do you have for this?

Thats why people carry guns to protect themselves

Much like people who have been raped look positively on it

People have hard times with killing another person, in the line of duty, in war, or in defense. He ONCE AGAIN is making baseless claims that aren't grounded in reality. ONCE AGAIN.

[hsmith]

Originally Posted by motivez

I understand why a pizza delivery person would want to be armed, especially if they're going into bad neighborhoods at night.. getting out of the car and going up to strangers doors at all hours of the night is certainly not the safest job out there

So, while I don't really think it's a good policy, I don't see why libertarians would be upset, they usually believe business can put in place whatever rules and regulations for its employees that it wants to, worker be damned.

I am not upset about it.

I choose not to eat at Pizza Hut because of this policy against their workers. I think there is a big difference of forbidding workers from carrying IN THE BUILDING and using the weapon there compared to carrying WHILE THEY DELIVER to defend themselves on the road.

The saying in the concealed handgun community is "concealed means concealed" when carrying (Obviously not where it is illegal). I would have done the same thing if I were him. He took the risk and lost his job because of it. I am sure he is much more happy to be alive and looking for a job than to be dead.

[RockPusher]

Originally Posted by motivez

I understand why a pizza delivery person would want to be armed, especially if they're going into bad neighborhoods at night.. getting out of the car and going up to strangers doors at all hours of the night is certainly not the safest job out there

So, while I don't really think it's a good policy, I don't see why libertarians would be upset, they usually believe business can put in place whatever rules and regulations for its employees that it wants to, worker be damned.

Concealed carry should be a 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy.

That is the whole 'concealed' aspect.

Every animal has a natural right to defend itself to its best advantage, whether that be teeth, claws, rocks or rifles. This is not some superficial or trivial right... it is like the right to suck air.

A weapon should be considered a part of the person who uses it. Like a claw.

An employer cannot tell an employee that they cannot pray to themselves so long as it does not interfere with work.

In the same vein, they should not tell someone that they cant keep a discrete, defensive firearm to themselves.

A hidden firearm is like a hidden cross or a silent prayer, and just as protected under the Bill of Rights.


You have a 1st amendment right to free speech, but not the right to use profanity in front of the customers or workers. But the company cannot tell you to refuse to speak to the police if you are questioned while on the clock, or to remain silent when an ambulance arrives to treat an injury.

This guy was not fired for scaring customers or workers with a firearm. He was fired for defending himself by bearing arms.

His rights were violated.

[nbiggershaft]

Originally Posted by RockPusher

Concealed carry should be a 'Don't ask, don't tell' policy.

That is the whole 'concealed' aspect.

Every animal has a natural right to defend itself to its best advantage, whether that be teeth, claws, rocks or rifles. This is not some superficial or trivial right... it is like the right to suck air.

A weapon should be considered a part of the person who uses it. Like a claw.

An employer cannot tell an employee that they cannot pray to themselves so long as it does not interfere with work.

In the same vein, they should not tell someone that they cant keep a discrete, defensive firearm to themselves.

A hidden firearm is like a hidden cross or a silent prayer, and just as protected under the Bill of Rights.


You have a 1st amendment right to free speech, but not the right to use profanity in front of the customers or workers. But the company cannot tell you to refuse to speak to the police if you are questioned while on the clock, or to remain silent when an ambulance arrives to treat an injury.

This guy was not fired for scaring customers or workers with a firearm. He was fired for defending himself by bearing arms.

His rights were violated.

Essentially it was don't ask don't tell. The cat kinda comes out of the bag when you shoot someone.

[6SpeedTA95]

This is a dumb corporate policy on the part of pizza hut but it is THEIR policy, he violated it. Seems pretty cut and dry to me

[Scrum]

I think it's a retarded policy, but it's theirs to make.

[A_C_E]

Pizza Hut has every right to create a policy wherein their employees are not allowed to carry firearms while on the clock. This man violated company policy, so he got fired. His "rights" were not violated, he broke the rules and faced the consequences. Plain and simple.

Libertarians should not be upset, since, as has been stated, libertarians support the right of employers to set their own standards for hiring and employee conduct. If you don't like the rules, then you should just go work somewhere else. If enough people don't like the policy, they will have insufficient employees, insufficient customers, and the company will go out of business. That's how the fee market works, right?

[A_C_E]

I also don't really see how this is a "dumb" policy. I wouldn't want my employees bringing handguns to the office every day, and stipulating that "guns can only be carried while delivering" is just dumb, since any concealed weapon can be carried wherever the holder wants and not seen if he knows what he's doing. Safer just to bar all handguns, period. Especially since I doubt the company wants to be liable if one of their employees goes crazy and starts shooting people.

Every employee in small-scale service jobs is trained in how to handle an attempted robbery. Give the criminal what he wants, be quiet, try and get a hold of the police (most gas stations have an emergency call button). Instead of trying to be a hero, this moron should have just given the guy the pizza, his wallet, and then left. Hell, they knew the fucking address, the cops would have picked up the robber in a matter of minutes anyway.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Pizza Hut has every right to create a policy wherein their employees are not allowed to carry firearms while on the clock. This man violated company policy, so he got fired. His "rights" were not violated, he broke the rules and faced the consequences. Plain and simple.

Libertarians should not be upset, since, as has been stated, libertarians support the right of employers to set their own standards for hiring and employee conduct. If you don't like the rules, then you should just go work somewhere else. If enough people don't like the policy, they will have insufficient employees, insufficient customers, and the company will go out of business. That's how the fee market works, right?

Absolutely they have a right to make that policy but it doens't make it a smart policy or a good policy on their part.

[motivez]

I think any company that employs people to a dangerous position should, if they're qualified and licensed, allow them to carry a gun on their job..

I don't think the company would be any more liable if someone went crazy and started shooting people because of a policy permitting it than they would be if they started doing it without a policy

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by motivez

I think any company that employs people to a dangerous position should, if they're qualified and licensed, allow them to carry a gun on their job..

I don't think the company would be any more liable if someone went crazy and started shooting people because of a policy permitting it than they would be if they started doing it without a policy

Saying "if we see you with a gun, in your car or on your body, you're getting fired" is a pretty good way of dissuading people from carrying.

If no one has a gun, no one can get shot, and the company is free from any liability.