Bush spins the state of the economy

[A_C_E]

Well said, 6. The only form of energy you forgot to mention is hydroelectric, which has and will continue to have a sizable impact on US energy production.

[WickedLou9]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Well said, 6. The only form of energy you forgot to mention is hydroelectric, which has and will continue to have a sizable impact on US energy production.

Hyrdo is amazing stuff. It's more than 90% efficient. I think in some cases like 98% or something. no pollution what so ever. The only problem is you change the local ecosystem turning a river into a lake. Given the alternatives.. I am tempted to say "who cares". I'll take a nice clean lake over dirty air and increasing CO2 emissions or even nuclear waste that will last 10 thousand years or more.

They can even do stuff to recover energy when it's not being used like at night. They can actually use all that unused power at night and pump water from the bottom back up to the top recovering that energy to some extent.
With other forms of power , all of that extra power that they generate at night is simply burned off and wasted. You can't just turn off a nuke plant or a coal plant at night. YOu actually CAN turn off a hyrdo plant and turn it back on again with fairly little fanfare.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Hyrdo is amazing stuff. It's more than 90% efficient. I think in some cases like 98% or something. no pollution what so ever. The only problem is you change the local ecosystem turning a river into a lake. Given the alternatives.. I am tempted to say "who cares". I'll take a nice clean lake over dirty air and increasing CO2 emissions or even nuclear waste that will last 10 thousand years or more.

Agreed and it's not like the eco-system can't just adapt to the new lake.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by WickedLou9

Hyrdo is amazing stuff. It's more than 90% efficient. I think in some cases like 98% or something. no pollution what so ever. The only problem is you change the local ecosystem turning a river into a lake. Given the alternatives.. I am tempted to say "who cares". I'll take a nice clean lake over dirty air and increasing CO2 emissions or even nuclear waste that will last 10 thousand years or more.

They can even do stuff to recover energy when it's not being used like at night. They can actually use all that unused power at night and pump water from the bottom back up to the top recovering that energy to some extent.
With other forms of power , all of that extra power that they generate at night is simply burned off and wasted. You can't just turn off a nuke plant or a coal plant at night. YOu actually CAN turn off a hyrdo plant and turn it back on again with fairly little fanfare.

Indeed. My hometown is right near niagara falls obviously, and it's incredible to see just what they can do up there at the hydro plant. They actually shut the entire falls off (just like turning off the kitchen sink) a few years back to do maintenance. And then, since they increase the water flow during the day and dramatically scale it back overnight, they can maintain the awesome natural beauty of the area--and still power most of the Mid-Atlantic and Southern Ontario.

It's really something to see, and the Canadian/American partnership in building the plant, and the insane amount of clean, efficient (and CHEAP!!) energy it provides should be a model for future discussions of a green future.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Well said, 6. The only form of energy you forgot to mention is hydroelectric, which has and will continue to have a sizable impact on US energy production.

I agree hydro is good but we get a very VERY small % of our power from hydro and unfortunately the enviro wackos are preventing the plants in many areas because of the impact on local ecosystems.

But I agree hydro is good.

[kinggovernor]

the only problem with hyrdo is that we have basically maxed out the system.

[kinggovernor]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I agree hydro is good but we get a very VERY small % of our power from hydro and unfortunately the enviro wackos are preventing the plants in many areas because of the impact on local ecosystems.

But I agree hydro is good.

enviro wackos are against most forms of power, including wind. This is from a town about 30 miles north:

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines

HAMLIN — Voices shouted and tears flowed Thursday night as the Town Board adopted a new law regulating wind farm development.

Councilman Paul Rath recused himself from the vote and debate because he has signed a lease agreement with a wind energy company.

Of the 75 people who attended the meeting, dozens opposed the new regulations, arguing they do not do enough to protect town residents.

The rules require that there be 1,200 feet between a wind turbine and the closest dwelling and 600 feet between it and the property line. But many residents wanted at least a 1,700-foot buffer from dwellings.

"Our concerns aren't being heard," said resident Tony Callari, who lives in an area where turbines might be built. Callari called the new law "developer-friendly."

Supervisor Dennis Roach told the crowd he had researched wind turbines and believed the law was "balanced, reasonable and defensible."

All four board members who voted in favor of the resolution said the 1,200-foot setback was appropriate.

Some residents shouted at board members during their pre-vote discussion. One man called for Roach's resignation before storming out mid-meeting, and several people laughed when board members attempted to defend the details of the resolution. One woman sobbed after the vote, saying the board had just "destroyed the town."

The new guidelines allow turbines only in low-density residential areas and require developers to obtain variances, special-use permits and environmental studies to ensure any towers would not disrupt ecosystems, migratory bird paths or other town residents. The rules also include noise restrictions.

The wind-turbine debate began in Hamlin in late 2006, when wind farm developer Competitive Power Ventures Inc. erected two devices in the northwest part of town.

Leaders of the 9,000-resident town soon realized they had no rules to govern where such a farm could go. In March 2007, the board enacted a moratorium on wind farms in order to draft new laws.

Hamlin is the first town in Monroe County to catch the eye of wind power developers.

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines | democratandchronicle.com | Democrat and Chronicle

This is a farming town, the population of livestock is higher than people. Yet they still bitch about NIMBY. They claim to care about the environment until the solution is built somewhat close to their house.

[Phantom]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

But I agree hydro is good.

fo sho.

Just pointing out the need to take quotes in context.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

enviro wackos are against most forms of power, including wind. This is from a town about 30 miles north:

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines

HAMLIN — Voices shouted and tears flowed Thursday night as the Town Board adopted a new law regulating wind farm development.

Councilman Paul Rath recused himself from the vote and debate because he has signed a lease agreement with a wind energy company.

Of the 75 people who attended the meeting, dozens opposed the new regulations, arguing they do not do enough to protect town residents.

The rules require that there be 1,200 feet between a wind turbine and the closest dwelling and 600 feet between it and the property line. But many residents wanted at least a 1,700-foot buffer from dwellings.

"Our concerns aren't being heard," said resident Tony Callari, who lives in an area where turbines might be built. Callari called the new law "developer-friendly."

Supervisor Dennis Roach told the crowd he had researched wind turbines and believed the law was "balanced, reasonable and defensible."

All four board members who voted in favor of the resolution said the 1,200-foot setback was appropriate.

Some residents shouted at board members during their pre-vote discussion. One man called for Roach's resignation before storming out mid-meeting, and several people laughed when board members attempted to defend the details of the resolution. One woman sobbed after the vote, saying the board had just "destroyed the town."

The new guidelines allow turbines only in low-density residential areas and require developers to obtain variances, special-use permits and environmental studies to ensure any towers would not disrupt ecosystems, migratory bird paths or other town residents. The rules also include noise restrictions.

The wind-turbine debate began in Hamlin in late 2006, when wind farm developer Competitive Power Ventures Inc. erected two devices in the northwest part of town.

Leaders of the 9,000-resident town soon realized they had no rules to govern where such a farm could go. In March 2007, the board enacted a moratorium on wind farms in order to draft new laws.

Hamlin is the first town in Monroe County to catch the eye of wind power developers.

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines | democratandchronicle.com | Democrat and Chronicle

This is a farming town, the population of livestock is higher than people. Yet they still bitch about NIMBY. They claim to care about the environment until the solution is built somewhat close to their house.

I wont take these people seriously until they start living in tents and consumer no electricity. They aren 't willin to do it and they're the people preaching at us.

[David Octavius]

Originally Posted by kinggovernor

enviro wackos are against most forms of power, including wind. This is from a town about 30 miles north:

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines

HAMLIN — Voices shouted and tears flowed Thursday night as the Town Board adopted a new law regulating wind farm development.

Councilman Paul Rath recused himself from the vote and debate because he has signed a lease agreement with a wind energy company.

Of the 75 people who attended the meeting, dozens opposed the new regulations, arguing they do not do enough to protect town residents.

The rules require that there be 1,200 feet between a wind turbine and the closest dwelling and 600 feet between it and the property line. But many residents wanted at least a 1,700-foot buffer from dwellings.

"Our concerns aren't being heard," said resident Tony Callari, who lives in an area where turbines might be built. Callari called the new law "developer-friendly."

Supervisor Dennis Roach told the crowd he had researched wind turbines and believed the law was "balanced, reasonable and defensible."

All four board members who voted in favor of the resolution said the 1,200-foot setback was appropriate.

Some residents shouted at board members during their pre-vote discussion. One man called for Roach's resignation before storming out mid-meeting, and several people laughed when board members attempted to defend the details of the resolution. One woman sobbed after the vote, saying the board had just "destroyed the town."

The new guidelines allow turbines only in low-density residential areas and require developers to obtain variances, special-use permits and environmental studies to ensure any towers would not disrupt ecosystems, migratory bird paths or other town residents. The rules also include noise restrictions.

The wind-turbine debate began in Hamlin in late 2006, when wind farm developer Competitive Power Ventures Inc. erected two devices in the northwest part of town.

Leaders of the 9,000-resident town soon realized they had no rules to govern where such a farm could go. In March 2007, the board enacted a moratorium on wind farms in order to draft new laws.

Hamlin is the first town in Monroe County to catch the eye of wind power developers.

Hamlin sets rules for wind turbines | democratandchronicle.com | Democrat and Chronicle

This is a farming town, the population of livestock is higher than people. Yet they still bitch about NIMBY. They claim to care about the environment until the solution is built somewhat close to their house.

Thats not envioro-wackos, just conservative people who don't want to see "ugly" wind farms near their property, driving down home values and making the scenery look bad...the same thing happened on LI when there was a proposal to build wind farms near a beach.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I wont take these people seriously until they start living in tents and consumer no electricity. They aren 't willin to do it and they're the people preaching at us.

They wanted the turbines 500 ft. farther away from their houses, they weren't saying wind power shouldn't exist.

[6SpeedTA95]

Originally Posted by Scrum

They wanted the turbines 500 ft. farther away from their houses, they weren't saying wind power shouldn't exist.

I know, I was talking about the enviro wacko crowd in general, sorry I should have been more specific.

[thewise1]

I think those wind power turbines are awesome looking. Seeing them in the middle of nowhere makes me feel like I'm in some futuristic world, I would totally not mind them in my backyard - so to speak.

Maybe that would get old tho

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95

I know, I was talking about the enviro wacko crowd in general, sorry I should have been more specific.

Agreed.

Green though I may be, I would consider actively campaigning against clean, re-usable energy sources to be kind of idiotic.

[Scrum]

Originally Posted by thewise1

I think those wind power turbines are awesome looking. Seeing them in the middle of nowhere makes me feel like I'm in some futuristic world, I would totally not mind them in my backyard - so to speak.

Maybe that would get old tho

YouTube Video

That was awesome.

[6SpeedTA95]

Damn that was cool

[motivez]

Originally Posted by Scrum

YouTube Video

That was awesome.

Story behind that?

[Dispatcher]

Originally Posted by A_C_E

Well said, 6. The only form of energy you forgot to mention is hydroelectric, which has and will continue to have a sizable impact on US energy production.

And solar...I know it was mentioned, but why aren't there huge arrays of solar panels out in the desert somewhere. I know they are expensive, and obviously don't work at night, but it seems like the sun would be a limitless power source.

[A_C_E]

Originally Posted by Dispatcher

And solar...I know it was mentioned, but why aren't there huge arrays of solar panels out in the desert somewhere. I know they are expensive, and obviously don't work at night, but it seems like the sun would be a limitless power source.

Agreed.

Seems senseless that we have thousands of square miles of southwestern desert where there's high-angle sunlight 330+ days per year. Large areas of solar panels in those regions would produce a sizable amount of energy.